About Bob Dylan

PhillyDave

“The essential doesn't change.” Beckett
Over 1000 posts
#2
Good for him. That's cool. Kinda funny that they chose a year that he didn't publish book and didn't release any original/new songs. "a poet in the grand English tradition." I agree. I think Lou Reed is a poet as well. Pretty much all other lyricists since rock n roll's inception, any that are/were considered poets, I think, are "poetic" at most. Jim Morrison was on his way and a few others were/are close but Bob is it. Leonard Cohen I guess...but he is rock n roll era but not rock n roll...
 
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mjp

The stone that the builder refused
Moderator
Founding member
Over 5000 posts
#5
I think the Nobel science guy(s) got an award the other day for something they wrote in 1977, so it's often a life's work thing.

As for Bob Dylan's lyrics being literature, no comment.
 

Pogue Mahone

Officials say drugs may have played a part
Over 1000 posts
#7
There is this story out there, that I kind of want to believe, but not because I want Dylan to take credit for the the Civil Rights white guy contribution. But supposedly Otis Redding was really upset/surprised that a white guy wrote "Blowing in the Wind". So that's what drove him to write "A Change Is Gonna Come." If true, I love the competition that drove Otis to make that kind of contribution. I'm any case, Bob should have gotten that reward back in 1965.
 

Johannes

Founding member
Over 1000 posts
#8
It's cool on one hand because it's Bob Dylan, it has never happened before and the Swedish Academy keeps throwing out surprising laureates every now and then, as if they want to show the world that they are not just a bunch of grey old farts in some office.

On the other hand there are probably few if not no other possible candidates who'd need the 8,000 000 Swedish krona and the sales hype in the wake of the Nobel less than Bob Dylan.

So I don't know. Coolest thing ever is rejecting the Nobel for Literature anyway, imo. Only two guys did this in the history of the prize. One, Boris Pasternak, was forced to do so by the Soviet Union. The other is Jean Paul Sartre and to this day I was never able to fully comprehend his written explanations why. Maybe he didn't understand himself either.
 

PhillyDave

“The essential doesn't change.” Beckett
Over 1000 posts
#9
Of course I don't know Dylan personally and have no idea what he's gonna do w the money but I'm sure he'll take it. Have you seen some of the crap he's tried to sell on his site over the years?
 
#10
As for Bob Dylan's lyrics being literature, no comment.
That lyrics aren't poetry doesn't necessarily disqualify them as being literature. Is "the scientific literature" (a term used on a regular basis in my field) literature? Well, yes and no. I know I'm biased, but that doesn't necessarily disqualify me from having a legitimate opinion.
 

Pogue Mahone

Officials say drugs may have played a part
Over 1000 posts
#11
The guy knew how to lay the line down at a critical time in history. Why he gets the recognition now instead of then is anyone's guess...
 
#12
It's because what Dylan did in '65-'66 was yet to be taken seriously. It was a kid's game, not a grown-up game; for better for for worse. And, at the end of the day, as mjp would likely state (if I understand his position well enough to state that), R&R is a kid's game, or a teenager's realm, for the most part. I have lost interest in much of what I listened to when I was a teenager, but not all of it. Some of it transcends the simple genre of R&R.
 

Skygazer

And in the end...
Over 500 posts
#14
It's a long and winding road to the Nobel Prize anyhoo and the recipients tend to be grey haired by the time they get there, so they've earned it most of the time. Difficult to argue that lyrically speaking Dylan's words don't deserve.this accolade, but it is a surprise (a nice one) nonetheless.
 

Pogue Mahone

Officials say drugs may have played a part
Over 1000 posts
#15
It's because what Dylan did in '65-'66 was yet to be taken seriously. It was a kid's game, not a grown-up game; for better for for worse. And, at the end of the day, as mjp would likely state (if I understand his position well enough to state that), R&R is a kid's game, or a teenager's realm, for the most part. I have lost interest in much of what I listened to when I was a teenager, but not all of it. Some of it transcends the simple genre of R&R.
You know Dylan better than I do, but "The Times They are a-Changing" must have had a pretty big blip on the earthquake scale. Though I love many other Dylan songs, that one puts a nail in the coffin for the 1950s Daddy/Daughter relationship. I say daughter/daddy because I assume the father/son relationship was already strained.
 

skiroomalum

Never been to Waffle House, never been to me...
Over 1000 posts
#16
At the end of the day, who remembers who won what award, prize, etc.
It's hard for me to work up a shit either way. Fucking James Joyce and Danny Valdez never won that thing, so how seriously can it be taken?
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Over 5000 posts
#18
Funny we still have´nt heard Dylan's response to his Nobel prize, but I´m sure he´ll accept it just like he accepted the French Ordre des Arts et des Lettres and the Presidential Medal of Freedom and what not.
 

Johannes

Founding member
Over 1000 posts
#21
Maybe Dylan won't respond at all. Not accept it, not reject it. Simply nothing, just keep touring and giving pissed off grumpy concerts like he has since dinosaurs inhabited the earth. Now THAT would be something. :D

Something new, too.

"You won the Nobel Prize."
"Yeah, whatever."

BD.jpg
 
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esart

esart.com
Founding member
Over 500 posts
#22
I have to say that, for a songwriter, he should get whatever is even better than a Nobel Prize, but for literature? I don't think so.

So of all the writers out there that have studied and written prose, novels, fiction or non-fiction, poetry, essays, articles, stories over the span of their entire lives -- writers who have produced actual literature -- Bob Dylan's song lyrics win out over all of that?

Hmm.
 

Skygazer

And in the end...
Over 500 posts
#24
His award was/is controversial and that's no bad thing, at least it sparks debate. But if literature is work of "written creative imagination that represents the culture and tradition of a people", then it is deserving. The cult of the Book shouldn't ignore other genres. Dramatists and playwrights including Shakespeare intended their words to be spoken primarily, so why should rich poetic lyrics intended to be sung be considered a lesser form.

What Dylan isn't telling us about his feelings on the award isn't atypical. He has described himself before when compared to a poet as just a "Song and Dance Man". Maybe we are missing the point, if we think literature is just words on a page - in a book. Shouldn't it be, wasn't it, spoken and sung language too?.
For me Positively 4th Street is a whole blockbuster of a novel right there, but it in no way comes close to his "better" songs.And :) he didn't get the award for his voice.
 

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
Over 1000 posts
#25
They are awarding him the prize because his lyrics were original and reflecting a social climate which was absolutely troubled and rapidly changing :rolleyes:.
He reached every continent, influenced so many song writers and writers, how could that be ignored or questioned? I am very happy for him. What else could we give him, a cracker jack whistle?
 

esart

esart.com
Founding member
Over 500 posts
#26
Both of you guys have made good posts here (I'm not a fan of Shakespeare, but in using him as an example, you make a really compelling point that changes my view). I can admit when I'm wrong. And of course he deserves more than a fucking cracker jack whistle. Bob Dylan is one of biggest stand-alone icons there is. So, I'm not standing firm on my original ground. But I don't subscribe to the "cult of the book." I wasn't implying that, and if I did, I didn't mean to. I take back what I said about it not being literature. Sure, it's literature. And yes, it was some of the most influential literature of our time. So yeah, okay, give him an award, and not a whistle - a Nobel Prize. Happy?
 

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
Over 1000 posts
#28
Both of you guys have made good posts here (I'm not a fan of Shakespeare, but in using him as an example, you make a really compelling point that changes my view). I can admit when I'm wrong. And of course he deserves more than a fucking cracker jack whistle. Bob Dylan is one of biggest stand-alone icons there is. So, I'm not standing firm on my original ground. But I don't subscribe to the "cult of the book." I wasn't implying that, and if I did, I didn't mean to. I take back what I said about it not being literature. Sure, it's literature. And yes, it was some of the most influential literature of our time. So yeah, okay, give him an award, and not a whistle - a Nobel Prize. Happy?
At my age, i don't stand firm on anything. The reason for that is that my opinion has changed on so many things that i firmly believed. As for Bob, i am happy for me too. I most likely learned how to speak English trying to figure out what he was talking about. I thought that i was winning a little. My family thought that i was listening to cracker jack music in comparaison to Guy Lombardo and Mantovani.
 

Skygazer

And in the end...
Over 500 posts
#30
[... So, I'm not standing firm on my original ground...]
Neither did I, my absolute first reaction was, What? aren't there any proper writers out there, who've been slogging away for years, in need of a bloody good medal! then I persuaded myself too, his body of work is just as vocational and a damn sight more influential than some recipients. But I don't think there is a right or wrong to this, just different points of view.

It's his perogative to stay silent about it,, although I hope he will be secretly pleased. All that's left is next February's declaration of him as a Sovereign State and he's sorted.
 
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