Brand new Forgery on Ebay

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi,
I let him know. We'll see what he wants to do about this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Post-Office-by-...8QQihZ009QQcategoryZ29223QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My reasons for being sure that this is not real:

1) Signature is copied from a signature that would be earlier than the 1993 date
2) Sig just looks BAD
3) Buk was not in Spain in the 93 or 94

I believe that the seller probably bought it from a bookstore that was selling it as a regular cheap unsigned book and then discovered what he thought was real. The other possibility is that he forged it, but I cannot accuse anyone of that. I am pretty sure that inspection of the signature in person would confirm the telltale "starts and stops" of a bad forger.

Do those on the forum agree with me that this is 100% wrong?

Bill

p.s. I apologize to any forum members that think that ebay policing for forgeries ios wrong and that I should let the unsuspecting buyers get ripped off.
 

cirerita

Founding member
ha, he lives kind of close to my place. I could drop by and take a look at the book.

anyway, he says that B might have sent the book to that friend he mentions in the listing (Jaime something), not that B was actually in Spain. The fact that B could have sent a signed copy to someone in Spain sounds reasonable, but the sig looks indeed suspicious .
 

Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
Even I can see this is fake.
And what about his English...it almost looks like he is forcing to make spelling and grammar mistakes.

At least mine are real!
 

hank solo

Just practicin' steps and keepin' outta the fights
Moderator
Founding member
I saw that one and thought "Ha, thats just rubbish!"
Maybe we're all wrong? :D
 

cirerita

Founding member
his English ain't perfect 'cos he's Spanish. He just replied to me and told me he found the book in an second-hand bookshop somewhere in Barcelona (in fact, in a bookstore I know firsthand).
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
HI,
He replied to me also, but seems to not understand how I could know that it is a forgery. I think that he has good intentions, but I'm sure that this is a fake.

Bill
 
that is not a bukowski drawing. ive never seen him use jagged lines like that - it just looks like someone who doesnt understand his style trying to repeat the simplicity of it all. horrible.

my 2 cents

paul
 

mjp

Your Host
Moderator
Founding member
Wow. Ha ha ha ha ha. Looks ex-library on top of it all.

But honestly, if I saw that drawing under a legit Bukowski signature I wouldn't give it a second thought. It's obviously not signed by Bukowski, but am I nuts? I think the drawing could pass as genuine. I don't think it is, of course, but it could pass. I've seen worse scribbles from Bukowski.
 

HenryChinaski

Founding member
no this pisses me off, the guy has a Palahniuk "signed" copy of lullaby up for sale too. I've studied Palahniuks signature too and the one he has is also a forgery.

this really fucking pisses me off. the guy claims he found the book second hand? well thats funny becuase both of the signatures have very distinguishing similarities.
 

mjp

Your Host
Moderator
Founding member
...the guy has a Palahniuk "signed" copy of lullaby up for sale too. I've studied Palahniuks signature too and the one he has is also a forgery.
That one is even worse, if that's possible. You can see where he stopped the pen throughout the signature.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
HI,
I know that I'm an ass and seem like I want to be an ebay cop, but that is not the case. What DOES piss me off is people that buy used books, go online, study the signature and then make thier own signed edition. The fact that they are trying to defraud pisses me off, as does their arrogance that the piece of shit signature actually is passable. If they were good, then I would still be pissed, but would at least RESPECT their effort, but this is just sad. He shut the Bukowski auction down. I bet that there were a few of us that told him about the book and he got scared. Here is the e-mail that I just sent to him about this latest forgery. Something tells me that he may just get out of the "finding signed books in the library" business...

BIll

"Hi,
Who ever sold you this book was also the same person that forged the Bukowski book. VERY similar style. A handwriting expert could verify that the same person signed both books and they are certainly NOT the authors in question. This one is wrong in so many ways. This one, I can see where the unsure person forging this actually lifted his pen while forging. I'm not accusing you of forging these, but this is the second forged book to be offered by you. This one is so far from right, that I cannot spend the time to list all of the things that are wrong with the signature.

Ebay takes these very serious, as do the authors, who have been known to have sellers shut down.

Just some friendly advice.

Bill "
 

HenryChinaski

Founding member
the funny thing is, you can get signed Palahniuk books from St. Helens bookshop for the price of an unsigned book. this guy is stupid.

LOL bill, youre like a bountyhunter. OKAY, THIS GUY FORGED THIS ONE, and he's been seen, hanging out in the signed books area of ebay.

GET EM YOUNGBLOOD!

ahahhahahaha. thats great.
 
Hi friends,
yes, this fake was a pretty lousy one.

But I am unsure about a book that I own myself, maybe you'd have a quick look at it too? I know, of course, lots of proofed Buk-sigs and have a few too.

The point with this one is: It was very very cheap at ebay, when I found it there. That was the reason, I bought it (beside that, to me, it looks like his true signature, of course).
I wouldn't want to sell it anyway. Just ask some experts, what they think about it.
It's here: http://www.bukowski-gesellschaft.de/div/buk-sig-burning.jpg

Thanks for advice.
roni
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi Roni,
From the scan, this one looks right to me. It looks "fluid" enough to be authentic, althought that "B" does bug me a bit... I seem to remember selling something like this on ebay a while back (and regretting it..) Do you remember who the seller was, or what you paid for it?

Without seeing it in person, I would still say that it looks "right" (with some reservations).

Anyone else have an opinion on this signature?

Bill
 
Do you remember who the seller was, or what you paid for it?
Not sure, but since I'm not that active on ebay and can easily overlook my few comments, I'd have a look. What's your ebay-name? (mine's ronibert)
Think it was before 2003. Aint sure though.
Thanks for your evaluation of the sig.
Love.
 
Hey, Roni, that's the real deal, if you ask me. I'd stake my reputation on it (whatever THAT'S worth!). If it was very, very, cheap, as you state, then consider yourself very lucky, and very smart, to have bought it.
 

mjp

Your Host
Moderator
Founding member
I think everyone posting in this thread would enjoy a book that David Barker recommended a while back, The Poet and the Murderer by Simon Worrall.

Ostensibly it's about a forged Emily Dickinson poem, but it goes deep into the forger's life (brought up Mormon, grew to hate the church and undermined it with forged documents, including the notorious "Salamander Letter") and into forgery itself throughout history. A really great read.

One of the things mentioned in the book is that in authentic signatures (and writing in general) the end of words will trail off slightly, making almost a pointed end to the line. You can see that clearly in Roni's Bukowski signature, even in the dot on the "i."

Anyway, it's a good book, and you can get it on eBay for a dollar or two from a lot of different sellers.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Here's a new forgery. I let him know. Let's see what happens. It may not be a bad idea for others to let him know that he is trying to sell a forged signature. HE has hidden the high bidder, which is not a good sign.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330092434782

This one is truly, painfully bad. Still, someone will bid on it, frme it and show off their cool Bukowski signature that was signed last week!

Bill
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
followup:

Looking through this guys feedback, it seems that his business model is to buy books, study authentic signatures (probably on the internet) and then forge the signatures. He has a bunch of feedback reporting fake signatures. How can someone be so unlucky to buy forged books and then sell them on ebay? They can't they are frauds who sit at hope with their sharpies finding new authors to use to steal money.

I have no doubt that he is a conman. I think that someone that I know may have to bid this up to crazy money and then never pay for it....

Bill
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Wow! - that one really is bad...let's hope he does'nt get away with it. You're doing a great job Bill, in trying to expose these forging bastards!
 
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chronic

old and in the way
Yeah, judging by the feedback, this seller is undoubtedly a crook. When you see so many complaints alleging the same type of fraud, you know something ain't right.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi,
You are right, of course. This shithead makes his grocery money off of forging signatures and preying on his fellow man.

I have no doubt that ebay will do nothing to stop him as he has done this before and clearly the others that were ripped off also filed complaints. All we cna do is make it unprofitable for him to sell fake Buks. I cannot get into his forging of Reagan and Clinton books. That is for the Reagan and Clinton people to deal with.

Fuck if he'll get away with forging Buk and making any money off of it.

Best,
Bill
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
I've been going through all his feedback. Oh, boy, what a long list of complaints. First editions not being first editions, Books not as described with underlinings in ink, tears etc. Over charges in postage, sends as media mail when buyer has paid for priority mail, sends items way too late, items "lost" in mail-no refund, does'nt answer e-mails, sells broken items (rings, cameras) and of course all the fake signatures.
I can't even remember it all. Sounds like a con man. Oterwise he would answer e-mails and give refunds when items are lost in the mail...
 
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bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Also notice that he hides the winning bidder whenever it is one of his forged signatures (as all of his signatures are probably forged by him). The legit items that he sells (anything NOT signed, he shows the winning bidder. This, of course, allows him to sell forged items and people cannot be warned.

This is another example of ebay making it very easy to commit fraud.

I can understand people wanting to keep what they buy secret at times, but wouldn't it be easier to let the bidder choose to not have his name listed, instead of the seller choose this? Sellers should not care, it should be an issue for bidders. It would be easy to do this and still allow people to e-mail the buyers through the ebay system and keep the person anonymous. Clearly ebay is not worried about fraud. Their thought seems to be that as long as they pretend that they cannot stop it, they are legally blameless. That is not true. One day, they will be made to account for years af collusion to fraud.

Bill
 
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