Buk-Art-Exhibition planned by Polish museum - CALL for contributions! (1 Viewer)

I got contacted by a Polish museum-curator who wants to do an exhibition of BUKOWSKIs ARTWORK.
(isn't that what we've all dreamed about for years?!)

This gallery has been founded by the German author and Nobel-Prize-winner Günter Grass ('The Tin Drum') and he's still assotiated with it. So I'm sure they're reliable and professional.

She asked me to make contact to owners of paintings and drawings etc for her.
Since I really love the idea, I've even decided, that the Buk-Society will officially collaborate with them on the task.
We will lend them everything from our archives, that they're interested in.

Of course, as a potential lender, one got serious security-concerns.
Here's what the curator wrote to me re that:
".....
I would like to emphasise that our gallery is experienced in handling similar enterprises [...] Certainly, our gallery is provided with necessary security systems and proper insurance policy.
....."


Now, here's where my question to all you fine owners of such work comes in:
Would You Be Available To Lend Some Of Your Items For The Noble Purpose??

I DO KNOW, that it feels uncomfortable to even think of your treasures to be lent, shipped across an ocean, exhibited and then sent all the way back.

But just imagine, nobody would ever lend their pieces of art to exhibitions: how dull and sad would our museum-life be?! How many wonderful exhibitons you've been able to experience had not happened at all?

So, please: would you at least consider a contribution?
Your thoughts?
 

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
A second option would be that whoever does not wish to part with the original could send a good reproduction.

A good photo could satisfy the curious.
 

mjp

Founding member
just imagine, nobody would ever lend their pieces of art to exhibitions: how dull and sad would our museum-life be?! How many wonderful exhibitons you've been able to experience had not happened at all?

Your thoughts?
Well, since you've asked for thoughts and are now shaming our silence, I'll offer my thoughts. :)

Your point about art being lent for exhibitions is valid.

You leave out an important detail though, and that is art is not typically lent to exhibitions by normal people, but rather by wealthy people. So while it may be a trivial thing for wealthy people to ship a few of their treasures off for other people to look at, they are not saying goodbye to their only treasures.

Maybe though, when it comes to the average Bukowski collector, their piece of Bukowski art may be one of their prized possessions. That might explain the reluctance some people have.

It might also be worth considering that few here would have any connection - emotional or otherwise - to a Polish museum, so asking them to send a valuable item to one is kind of random.
 
[...] now shaming our silence, [...]

"shaming" is too big a word.
but a little more response from the many members here, who own Buk-artwork, would've been nice (even if they'd decline, just a response). Even better would have been responses that are questions about the project. Something that shows, that at least someone is considering to think about this idea in general. Or starting to discuss the issue.

I fully understand reluctance on lending items for this or any purpose.
I value my Bukowski-collectibles as well - and ca. one/third of the whole archive of the Buk-Society is a lending from my own private belongings btw, while another third is a permanent lending from Daisy.

I also understand all your points given. Only I don't agree with them. Here's why:

[...] art is not typically lent to exhibitions by normal people, but rather by wealthy people. [...]

Maybe not "typically".
But it does happen all the time.
There are and have been numerous exhibitions all over the world, that did not only show items from the museum or wealthy collectors, but had pieces by people who are not collectors or even wealthy. People who may only own one or two pieces of the requested artist and are normal people - but still being available to lend for exhibitons.

[...] few here would have any connection - emotional or otherwise - to a Polish museum, [...]
I don't have either.
And I don't think, that is neccesary to consider a participation.


__________

So, maybe please, would all you lucky owners of Original Bukowski-art at least join in into the thread and talk about your thoughts and concerns?

It's only in Poland, okay, but this would be the VERY FIRST exhibition dedicated to Bukowski's ART!
Didn't we always talk about his (painting /drawing) artwork? Haven't we always thought, it isn't valued enough? THIS could be the first step to change this. Must we miss it?
Pleeeease!
 
Since you've asked twice now, roni, I feel you certainly deserve a reply from my end.

1. I agree that art should be shared with the public. The people should be able to decide whether something produced via some artistic medium is of sufficient beauty, or thought-provoking character, or shock value, or commentary - or whatever metric you want to assign to it - to be sought after by people going to see "art."

2. That said, achieving that goal by inserting art into a book is among the worst vehicles for accomplishing said goal (composing the art in a dumpster on Neptune might be a slightly worse decision).

3. If a member in good standing here were to be in my company at such time as I had in my possession a book containing a Bukowski painting, I would willingly let them hold it in their hands, but not without somewhat sheepishly overstating the obvious first: "Hey, please be really fucking careful with that." (Do sheep actually say that?)

4. I don't have the luxury of saying that to a museum curator who likely does not speak the same language as I do. And if he or she does, I won't be in the same room to say it to them and observe them as they do or do not comply.

5. That said, I have some faith that the professionals involved in this proposed exhibit might very well take care of the items in question. I do not, however, have enough faith in the people who might pack, ship, and otherwise handle an item that, as mjp stated, is not just a treasure or a luxury item (if I were rich, a $3-4,000 book would not be a luxury item), but an irreplaceable, unique, one-of-a-kind item because it contains a painting that I waited for and really liked.

6. I hope this doesn't sound selfish, but almost by definition, it is selfish. I admire your dedication to advancing all things Bukowski, and I'd like to think that I've helped the Bukowski Society in some way toward that aim. But I'm going to claim justified selfishness on this one.
 
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mjp

Founding member
I don't have [any connection - emotional or otherwise - to a Polish museum] either.
And I don't think, that is neccesary to consider a participation.
I don't understand that. I guess it just seems random to me, to send a valuable book to Poland. To be quite honest, I don't think I'd lend to a friend who wanted to exhibit something here in Los Angeles. Maybe for one night, when I could stand there and keep my eye on it. But walking away and leaving it there for weeks? I just wouldn't feel good about it.

Roni, I know you are putting on an exhibition of your own which makes me reluctant to say this next bit, but it's relevant to the conversation. So maybe you should stop reading right about here. Go click on a different thread, get some air or have a drink. You know I love you.





A great percentage of people behave like animals. Just because those animals walk into a gallery doesn't mean they suddenly become reasonable humans. I would need to grow more fingers and toes to count all the times I've had to tell people walking around in ART GALLERIES not to touch Carol's art! As for what goes on when no one is watching, I have a pretty good idea because her art regularly returns from exhibitions damaged. Regularly. So my paranoia and mistrust is based on 15 years of watching her art be mangled by the public and "professionals."

It doesn't happen every time, of course, and it doesn't really bother her (if she can fix it - which she usually can). She has to deal with it, it's part of her job. But it drives me up the fucking wall. The disrespect and sloppiness and idiocy.

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from being benevolent or generous and supporting Roni's exhibition or the Polish museum gallery, but that's the reality of the situation from where I sit.
 
hey mjp and Purple, thank you very much for your replies and insights.
Both of you are and have been very generous to the Buk-Society always.
So I take your concerns very serious and see your points, even agree with some.

That said: is anybody of the other members, owning Bukowski-art, feeling like joining the conversation? Maybe even considering a lending?

Jocelyne: your suggestion was not that bad. Even though the best reproduction can't really substitute an Original, it may be a solution to make it happen at all.



p.s.:
[...] it drives me up the fucking wall. The disrespect and sloppiness and idiocy. [...]
Ab-so-lutely right! I couldn't stand such behaviour either.
 
There is a point the museum mentionned which is probably the most important: the INSURANCE policy.

I can't remember if it's the borrowing museum that pays the insurance, or the owner, but museums are usually very careful about handling artworks because their reputation depends on it.

My sister works for big museums, and have often contacted foreign ones to borrow or lend pricy artworks. I will call her and ask how it works and if it's different with (non-wealthy) people.

I know you took your decision Purple Stickpin, but I'm answering for all:
Since you've asked twice now, roni, I feel you certainly deserve a reply from my end.

3. If a member in good standing here were to be in my company at such time as I had in my possession a book containing a Bukowski painting, I would willingly let them hold it in their hands, but not without somewhat sheepishly overstating the obvious first: "Hey, please be really fucking careful with that." (Do sheep actually say that?)

4. I don't have the luxury of saying that to a museum curator who likely does not speak the same language as I do. And if he or she does, I won't be in the same room to say it to them and observe them as they do or do not comply.
Well,usually, if the museum is really professional, it would establish a sort of contract/insurance policy where the owner can say how the artwork should be handled, in every minute detail. Like for a painting, that the frame should be so and so, how exactly it should be hanged, what temperature should be in the room etc. And should it be damaged, the insurance would give you a compensation
5. That said, I have some faith that the professionals involved in this proposed exhibit might very well take care of the items in question. I do not, however, have enough faith in the people who might pack, ship, and otherwise handle an item that, as mjp stated, is not just a treasure or a luxury item (if I were rich, a $3-4,000 book would not be a luxury item), but an irreplaceable, unique, one-of-a-kind item because it contains a painting that I waited for and really liked.
They are transportation companies that are specialized in transporting artworks, and it's the borrowing museum that pays and is responsible for any incident.
That said, imagine there are 40 people scattered across the world who would lend one piece each, would the museum be able to afford a proper transportation company for each? Personally, if they told me *I* had to send something myself, I would not trust them.
 

mjp

Founding member
INSURANCE...insurance...insurance policy...insurance...
The monetary value of the book or art is trivial to me compared to the value it has in my life as art. I can make money, I can't make Bukowski art. So insurance is moot point.

We have a lot of art displayed and stored in our house. Well over a thousand pieces. It's all insured, but if the house burned down, blew away in a typhoon or was stepped on by Godzilla, the insurance money couldn't begin to replace the art. Ten times the insurance value couldn't replace it. Because it's art. It's not like getting a new stereo or couch.
 
My idea was just to give some infos for the silent readers who might have been on the fence. I personally don't know what I would have done, as I don't own any Buk art piece.

And I used the word "insurance" only three times. Ok, now four.
 

mjp

Founding member
And I used the word "insurance" only three times.
I just hit "Reply" and took out all the words that weren't insurance to make a point. So whatever is in my reply was in your post.

I'm not trying to convince anyone not to loan anything to anyone. But I tend to respond to things when a(nother) response from me is probably unnecessary. Like now.
 
There is a point the museum mentionned which is probably the most important: the INSURANCE policy.
I think that the most important point is (and mjp wrote basically the same thing):

I chose Buk's art for what it is. Whatever respect I may or may not have for curators, packers, shippers, or Insurance Companies *cough* I don't want to do this. I don't know if I can make myself any more clear.
 
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Purple S. I did say I knew you took your decision but I used the points you made to provide information for other people who might have needed it.
And once again for the sake of clarification: I do NOT think people should or should not lend their collectibles, and I do not think you are a horrible person for not wanting, and at your place I may have done the same for all I know.

So, i'm sorry if there was any misunderstanding.
 
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Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
@ our J. M.: I always like your attitude! Straight like an arrow.
“purple does something strange to me”

@ our Dora: High class scholar!
“Hey, Bubu, a bottle of good French wine...Sip it slowly, do you most good. You'll sleep. Be happy. And if you want to come downstairs, dance and sing, talk, ok. Do what you want. Here's the wine.”

 

d gray

tried to do his best but could not
Founding member
i wish i had a piece of original art to not lend...

mjp - as usual - sums it up perfectly. financial compensation - insurance - is meaningless with art or something irreplaceable. it's different when it's your car or house being damaged or destroyed.

i always thought a book of as many pieces of his art as possible would be great. owners wouldn't have to send them away to be photographed/scanned. it's too bad john martin didn't - i'm assuming - take pictures of all the paintings bukowski did for the books as they arrived to be inserted. that would be a nice collection...

don't want to pile on and rain on roni's parade but getting people to ship their treasures to poland is a tough call.
 

Skygazer

And in the end...
Glad you cleared that up zobraks... was thinking what the hell has John Martin got to do with all this:).

roni does highlight in his first post:
[... I would like to emphasise that our gallery is experienced in handling similar enterprises [...] Certainly, our gallery is provided with necessary security systems and proper insurance policy...]

Museums and Galleries would be stagnant, dull places without the generosity of other galleries and private owners, for exhibitions etc., but I don't think anyone should feel at all Smeagol like, if they don't want to loan out - it's understandable, if you have forked out hard earned cash for it.

On a related note, took my daughter to see Rodin's The Kiss in Edinburgh just before Christmas - it was on tour - absolutely amazing and wonderful to see it (my daughter was a bit underwhelmed:-)) went back to see it on my own after Christmas and I am so grateful, that loans and tours do happen with art works and other big sculptural pieces.

Great art is for sharing with as many people as possible, I think.
 

Ponder

"So fuck Doubleday Doran"
RIP
J.M.1930 is not involved. This time.
However- maybe some of Bukowskis' art is also Martinized.
Wouldn't surprise me.
 

mjp

Founding member
I am so grateful, that loans and tours do happen with art works and other big sculptural pieces.
Again, just to be sure this dead horse is sufficiently beaten, regular people aren't loaning Rodins and Van Goghs to museums so we can go stare at them, other museums and extremely wealthy collectors are.
it's too bad john martin didn't - i'm assuming - take pictures of all the paintings bukowski did for the books...
He didn't. When we were pals he commented more than once that it was a good thing to collect Bukowski's art on a web site, and that he should have documented all of it himself.

A book of Bukowski art isn't out of the question - there are books full of pictures of valuable old guitars whose owners probably never let them out of the rooms they are stored in - but it would take some doing.
 

d gray

tried to do his best but could not
Founding member
Again, just to be sure this dead horse is sufficiently beaten, regular people aren't loaning Rodins and Van Goghs to museums so we can go stare at them, other museums and extremely wealthy collectors are.

another important point is when rodins and van goghs are loaned out, professional art packers and shippers deal with the work from the owners wall to the museum wall and back again.

hard to imagine that happening in this case.
 

Skygazer

And in the end...
Again, just to be sure this dead horse is sufficiently beaten, regular people aren't loaning Rodins and Van Goghs to museums so we can go stare at them, other museums and extremely wealthy collectors are.

Yes it is as dead as a Dodo, but the point I was making( and it had already been said more or less), is that art gets shipped around the world daily, great big stonking pieces too, with no major mishaps.

[...hard to imagine that happening in this case.

It's Poland (being a cultured, civilised place) not the Azerbaijani Freedom Fighters Annual Shindig in Baku.
 

d gray

tried to do his best but could not
Founding member
It's Poland (being a cultured, civilised place) not the Azerbaijani Freedom Fighters Annual Shindig in Baku.

pardon me ma'am, i may have made my point unclearly...(edited to be less of an asshole)

nothing to do with where the museum is. if it's not a blockbuster show - impressionists, picasso, the guy that paints dogs playing poker - ie not a big ticket draw - the museum can't afford to spend a ton of money on shipping the work.

museums have to be able to make their 'mounting the show' costs back on admission, gift store crap etc.

money runs that scene, not the art.
 
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Skygazer

And in the end...
No, I didn't miss the point. Just trying to keep the post brief.
Art is a business, otherwise would there be a "Buy, Sell,Trade" dedicated thread on this forum?
It's not one I am able to indulge in, I'm just glad to be able to go along to museums and galleries and appreciate it for a little while like the rest of humanity.
Admission to The Kiss was free by the way and I'm not the least bit interested in Gift Store crap. But yes, they do of course have to recoup their costs for special exhibitions and I have been happy to pay it.

Just to say... I'm really sorry this has wandered away from roni's original request and
[... but I don't think anyone should feel at all Smeagol like, if they don't want to loan out - it's understandable, if you have forked out hard earned cash for it...]
Great art is for sharing with as many people as possible, I think.

I do understand why everyone feels the way they do, it would be nerve racking to send your prized possessions off abroad.
 
Ok, I'll bite.
The art business has many levels and there are many reasons for holding shows. There are also different ways of paying for it, involving a variable combination of ticket sales, merchandise, subsidy and sponsorship. There are also hidden aspects, like reciprocal agreements between museums and (at higher levels) governments supporting shows by reciprocal loans and underwriting insurance. These last matters don't relate to this show, which seems like a small show by a small museum. ("small" is not a synonym for "amateur".)
As for transport, yes there are professional art transport firms. I imagine that as much of the art for this show will be in the US, there will be a central collection point and that all the American works will be transported together to the venue. I imagine that the museum has funds for arrangements like this or it would not announce the show in the first place. To reach this stage museums have already proceeded through many stages. Most transport firms are pretty good but it varies on the firm and the art they transport. Sadly, for Stargazer, I have to report there have been incidents of art works being seriously damaged in transit and even whilst being handled by museum staff. It is uncommon and museums and firms keep these incidents quiet. No, it is not a conspiracy and no, it is not common, but it happens.
I can't comment on this particular show because I don't know the museum or curator(s). I'll probably think of extra things to add, but that's all for tonight.
 
So, i'm sorry if there was any misunderstanding.
Don't worry, Dora; I don't think there was any real misunderstanding. I appreciate your side of things as much as my side of things. Always feel free to vocalize your opinions here. We like that, for the most part (although there is the occasional argument as a result). It keeps us sane. :DD
 
... and it isn't even My project.
sorry that I've been a bit more obtrusive than one would think is necessary.
it was just a shot. forget about it.
 
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No, no. Thanks for mentioning it, Roni. I might be able to review it if I am in the region when it takes place. So, thanks for alerting me, at least!
 

mjp

Founding member
It isn't obtrusive to ask for something, so don't let the answer to this question dissuade you from asking for something in the future.

For what it's worth, if I was on the asking end of this question I'd consider the feedback valuable. Disappointing, but valuable.
 
it is.
I just got the impression I may have asked a little too much or too often so some might be pissed being confronted with my trials again and again. I didn't want that. Hence my sorry.
 
"Hail Hail Resurrection!" - here I am again on this subject.
The gallery in Poland is now planning to exhibit from June 5 to July 26 this year.
They'll have a few originals as well as some other rare stuff from the archives of the Bukowski-Society.

In addition, they intend to display artwork by Bukowski like a slideshow on a big screen.

So my question would be:
Are the owners of original art available to take high-quality shots from their paintings and submit for the purpose?

I don't think there's money in it, but you sure will be named (except you don't want to).
 
Which are yours?
I'm pretty sure if you check your IMs you'll find a message with photos. I can't link to the individual photos in the art section, but one is the snarling sparrow with the purple beak and red bow tie (see lower left area of art section) and the other is the oft-sold copy of War All The Time with the portrait. Unfortunately, the second one isn't in the art section, which is surprising since it's been in a few threads over the years.
 
Illustrations are welcome, I think.

Purple:
You're right: you already showed me. Alas, the quality of those pics won't do. Would you be able to photograph them in high resolution?

And would anybody else be willing to take high-res photos of their Bukowski-art and share?
Pleeeze?
 

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