Buk In Men's Mags. (1 Viewer)

Ambreen

Sordide Sentimental
Thank you, Bukfan. I was aware of Buk writing for porno magazines, but not of Kerouac doing so.

Indeed, as it is explained in the article, Soune's biography talks about that period. I remember he explains that most of the stories Buk wrote for such magazines were literary poor but that some of them were later published in collections. For instance, the short story The monster (the one with a man raping a little girl), which he initially wrote for Hustler.
 
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Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
For instance, the short story The monster (the one with a man raping a little girl), which he initially wrote for Hustler.

That's right, Ambreen! The Monster was actually published as The Fiend. Some of those Hustler stories were not bad at all. Buk knew he had to put some sex in them, but he said he usually mixed the sex with a "real" story. He also said he needed the money at the time, and that Hustler and the other men's mags payed a good price for such stories.
 
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mjp

Founding member
Buk knew he had to put some sex in them, but he said he usually mixed the sex with a "real" story.
Yes. They were not second-rate or "throw away" stories. They were typical Bukowski prose with more graphic sex scenes added in.

If Sounes or anyone else classifies them as weak, then they are classifying Bukowski's prose as weak. Which it was in spots, of course, just like his poetry and everything else he wrote. But I think to consider the stories published in the men's magazines as somehow separate form his normal body of work is a mistake.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Exactly! There's no difference between his men's magazines stories and non-men's magazine stories, such as some of the stories in Hot Water Music f.ex. - "Not Quite Bernadette", comes to mind. Sex is just one of Buk's themes which we find in all of his work, whether it's novels, short stories or poetry.
 
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Ambreen

Sordide Sentimental
What I have understood is that Sounes considers them as globally inferior to his "normal" work, which means that there were nevertheless some ones coming out of the rest by their quality. Buk himself expressed his frustration of losing his time in writing stories he wasn't proud of because he had no choice.

Oh yes Bukfan, I remember Buk's gloomy explanations about the origin of The Fiend. I felt ill-at-ease while reading them.
 
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Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Yes, it's true that Sounes writes that Buk's stories for the men's magazines were "far less crafted" than the stories he did for Black Sparrow Press. I have'nt read all of those stories myself (I don't have the mags), only the ones that were collected in "Erections..." (now available in, "The Most Beautiful Woman In Town", and, "Tales Of Ordinary Madness), but it seems to me that many of those collected stories don't seem all that different from some of the stories in say, "Hot Water Music".

Yes, Ambreen, Buk's statements about The Fiend in Sounes'bio are very provocative, such as, "...but said he would let an eight-year-old suck his cock "if she wanted to". Buk liked to be provocative. It probably sold some extra copies too. ;)
 
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I've wondered myself how much "the market" had to do with the increasing sexual explicitness of Buk's writing. The material he was submitting to the LA Free Press, NOLA, and Open City was really not that different from the stories he began to send to Adam, Pix, Hustler, etc. although I think he probably exaggerated and in a way "satirized" the typical "erotic" story in his own inimitable way. Interestingly he had written a story back in 1956 or so--"The Rapist's Story"--which has a plot similar to "The Fiend" but much less explicit. Interestingly, Vladimir Nabokov's Lolita came out around the same time.
Another factor is that the "sexual revolution" of the Sixties coincided with Bukowski's own much more raw and direct confrontation with his own sexuality. The freedom of the times allowed him to explore areas which he had dealt with earlier either humorously or much less openly.
Also, some of the "stories" he submitted to the newspapers appeared in similar or altered form later in the magazines. He even tried out earlier versions of Women in the LA Free Press.
 

cirerita

Founding member
B. called most of the stories first submitted to the skin mags "hack work." He said that the best story of the 1969-72 period was "Animal Crackers in My Soup."
 
So are these mags worth anything more because of the Buks and beats contained inside?. I see stacks of these all the time at the flea markets, from those eras too, for a buck each or less...suppose I'll have to peruse them too; for the "literature" of course.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Men's Mags with Buk in them can go from $10 to over $100. There are probably still some that many people do not know about. I think that Abel found a bunch of lost stories, but I'm sure that more will continue to show up in flea markets, etc...

Bill
 
... They were typical Bukowski prose with more graphic sex scenes added in.

Definitely true.

The only problem, I have with 'em is:
since most people learn about Bukowski through these stories (at least in Germany), most of the readers tend to reduce him to 'sex&booze'.

But He is writing about sex and booze like about eating, breathing or having a flat tire - absolutely normal: it's part of everydaylife so it's part of his writing.

That's what these people do not see. And since this part of his writing is not SO MUCH in the foreground in 'Post Office' or especially not in 'Ham on Rye' I usually try to get people into Bukowski through these.

"Animal Crackers in My Soup."

Great story!
This one especially has that mix of sex And social criticism; humor, satire and seriousness.


... For instance, [...] the one with a man raping a little girl ...

This is, as I understand it, one of the LEAST stories, made up for men's interest. It has absolutely Nothing glorifying about the situation and is sheer horror as he expresses it.

I think, the main sentence to understand this story is:

"Martin's eyes looked into her eyes and it was a communication between two hells - one her's, the other his."

*snip* The material he was submitting to the LA Free Press, NOLA, and Open City was really not that different from the stories he began to send to Adam, Pix, Hustler, etc. although I think he probably exaggerated *snip*

interesting.
shows how mjp was right (see quote far above).

still I ain't sure about some of the stories, that invite to reduce the author to 'sex&booze'.

maybe it's good, he had these stories. They may lead people to him who'd Never read anything anyway. Especially young people. (being so anti-establishment etc.)

dunno.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
But He is writing about sex and booze like about eating, breathing or having a flat tire - absolutely normal: it's part of everydaylife so it's part of his writing.

True, but it's hardly normal to get drunk every day and to vomit in the toilet every morning. :D
 
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bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Here are some of the more mainstream smut...

Hustler - November 1976 - Story - The Fiend
Hustler - December 1976 - Interview "Dialog of a dirty old Man"
Hustler - March 1977 - Story - The Big Dope Reading
Hustler - July 1977 - Story - Exercise in Madness
Hustler - May 1978 - Story - An Affair of Very Little Importance
Hustler - Best of 4 (1979) - Story - An Affair of Very Little Importance
Hustler - March 1979 - Story - Break-In
Hustler - July 1985 - Story - The Lady with the Legs
Hustler - Best of 7 (1985) - Story - The Lady with the Legs
Oui - April 1984 - Story - The Lion
Oui - May 1985 - Story - The Misunderstanding Universe

I know these because I have these. I also have a couple issues of PIX around here somewhere....

Bill
 

cirerita

Founding member
I believe that the actual title of the Hustler July 1977 issue is "Workout." For some reason, most porn mags (Hustler and Oui, but also High Times) titled the stories differently in the TOC page.
 

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