I'm a huge fan of Buk's poetry, and one of the symbols I see most used most often is the rose. A very ironic symbol for him to be using, since the last thing he stands for is purity and beauty, but I love how he still uses it. So here's my request: I'm looking for any poems that have to deal with the rose, or mention the rose. I already have a few like "Hooray say the Roses" (my favorite), "In the Shadow of the Rose", and "The Poet". Anyone else have any good ones/want to discuss this symbol? <3
Bukowski and the Rose (1 Viewer)
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HenryChinaski
Founding member
there's also that famous quote by Buk that just happens to be one of my favorites.
"I was born to hustle roses down the avenues of the dead."
-Charles Bukowski
"I was born to hustle roses down the avenues of the dead."
-Charles Bukowski
in one of the Bukowski Tapes segments, he's going on about the human race, and how he doesn't like it..."I don't like their dogs or their cats or their roses." a scoff at the suburban ideal?
the only good poet
One retreat after another without peace.
welcome, there's "Rose, Rose" from the roominghouse madrigals (p.247). also, the last poem from that volume begins, "a rose/red sunlight;" and just flicking through i found another reference, from the poem "Dow Jones: Down" (p.209), "how can we talk about roses/or verlaine?"
by the end of that list, i got the feeling he was sending himself up. he never took himself too seriously. his use of poeticisms in his early poetry was ironic. he did garden: there's a poem in septuagenrian stew that has him weeding! that gave me a kick since i'm a maintenance gardener. i wonder, did he prune his own fruit trees? i seem to recall a poem in you get so alone that he writes about two fellows working on his house - the idea of which is amusing; and in the same volume (i believe), when asked if he is the poet cb, he denies it and replies that he is a "gardener for some rich people."
by the end of that list, i got the feeling he was sending himself up. he never took himself too seriously. his use of poeticisms in his early poetry was ironic. he did garden: there's a poem in septuagenrian stew that has him weeding! that gave me a kick since i'm a maintenance gardener. i wonder, did he prune his own fruit trees? i seem to recall a poem in you get so alone that he writes about two fellows working on his house - the idea of which is amusing; and in the same volume (i believe), when asked if he is the poet cb, he denies it and replies that he is a "gardener for some rich people."
buk mentions roses in a couple of poems in "what matters most" in "sometimes even putting a nickel into a parking meter feels good-"... " I'd rather grow roses than nurture self pity" ... and in "the crunch(2)"... "and the beads swing and the clouds obscure and the dogs piss upon the rose bushes".....
Hey, oddly enough your initial question is one that I was curious about as well. I am very intrigued by his use of the rose because of it's representation of beauty and purity. I have one Buk tattoo on the inside of my arm, it's an excerpt from his poem "Finished?" I have an appointment soon to get something else done on my chest and continuing onto my shoulder. I want to get roses, a couple of which will be red, while others are shaded black and few not filled in at all. I started considering a quote to go with it and because of my love for Buk i couldn't help but to consider him.
However, as you have all made evident he does not speak of the flower very often. After the question in the first post however, You speak of "In the Shadow of the Rose", and "The Poet". I know of every other rose reference that has been referred to in this forum so far. But pertaining to those two, I can not find them online anywhere. I' know that "In the shadow of the rose" is a book so i assume that "the poet" is one as well. My question, is can any of you enlighten me on the specific quotes in either book where he refers to the rose? i can not find them online anywhere.
However, as you have all made evident he does not speak of the flower very often. After the question in the first post however, You speak of "In the Shadow of the Rose", and "The Poet". I know of every other rose reference that has been referred to in this forum so far. But pertaining to those two, I can not find them online anywhere. I' know that "In the shadow of the rose" is a book so i assume that "the poet" is one as well. My question, is can any of you enlighten me on the specific quotes in either book where he refers to the rose? i can not find them online anywhere.
"A very ironic symbol for him to be using, since the last thing he stands for is purity and beauty, but I love how he still uses it."
I don't really agree with this. I rather think that he's got a bleak vision of humanity, and, even if he seldom mentions it, that he longs for genuine "purity", or "innocence", or whatever you may want to call it. Just look at ANY reference to his beloved daughter. Also, in "Ham on Rye" he depicts a cat that was thrown to a dog as "pure and white", and pities him as an innocent victim of human brutality.
As for the symbol of the rose, Bukowski does use lots of references to flowers, but they don't just stand for beauty. They seem much more ambiguous. In the collection "Burning in Water, Downing in Flame" (the one I know best so far) they are also deadly and there are almost cannibalistic undertones. In "the Flower Lover" the flower cuts the poet in pieces, and is still seen as beautiful. In "hooray say the roses", the latter are clearly related to blood and violence- I'll just quote the first lines:
hooray say the roses, today is blamesday
and we are red as blood.
hooray say the roses, today is Wednesday
and we bloom where soldiers fell,
and lovers too,
and the snake ate the word.
I used to think it was because roses have thorns, but that sounds too easy an explanation. In any case, flowers are indeed interesting symbols in the context of Buk's poetry.
I don't really agree with this. I rather think that he's got a bleak vision of humanity, and, even if he seldom mentions it, that he longs for genuine "purity", or "innocence", or whatever you may want to call it. Just look at ANY reference to his beloved daughter. Also, in "Ham on Rye" he depicts a cat that was thrown to a dog as "pure and white", and pities him as an innocent victim of human brutality.
As for the symbol of the rose, Bukowski does use lots of references to flowers, but they don't just stand for beauty. They seem much more ambiguous. In the collection "Burning in Water, Downing in Flame" (the one I know best so far) they are also deadly and there are almost cannibalistic undertones. In "the Flower Lover" the flower cuts the poet in pieces, and is still seen as beautiful. In "hooray say the roses", the latter are clearly related to blood and violence- I'll just quote the first lines:
hooray say the roses, today is blamesday
and we are red as blood.
hooray say the roses, today is Wednesday
and we bloom where soldiers fell,
and lovers too,
and the snake ate the word.
I used to think it was because roses have thorns, but that sounds too easy an explanation. In any case, flowers are indeed interesting symbols in the context of Buk's poetry.
If your not interested in the books what the hell are you doing here?
If you don't want to buy them just borrow them at a library.
Yeah.
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Of course, you can't get to read all the poems, since the books are copyrighted by the publisher (Black Sparrow Press/Ecco).
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Sign of the times, Erik. Books for free, music for free, movies/tv shows for free, etc. I spend a small fortune on the prior listed and I know many a clever devil who get theirs for free (or seek it out till the eyes strain). Perhaps I'm the dumb one for paying my way.
your contribution was valuable though.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
We might all instantly fry in our favourite chair, some plush chairs paid for, and some bought on credit! :wb:
Stay away from my creditcard, Baby.
No winkie.
Yes, and don't forget "I was born to hustle roses down the avenues of the dead..." which I believe Buk absorbed from Tennessee Williams "A Streetcar Named Desire"--"flores, flores, avenida de los muertos"....
the only good poet
One retreat after another without peace.
Not to be a prick but HC mentions that line in the second post. As for the origin of the quote, maybe it just comes from observing those poor sods who stand at traffic lights all day hawking roses...?
Yea, its one of my favorite Buk lines, and thats an interesting idea i never thought of that. However, In researching its meaning i found a very well thought out interpretation that i can't take credit for. A bukowski fan on the yahoo forum said:
"Picture for a moment a man trying to sell roses to dead people.
The man knows that a rose equivocates love and he knows that the dead aren't buying it.
To be alive and in love with the peaceful oblivion of death is the quandary Bukowski finds himself in.
He is comfortable knowing he has afforded himself the luxury of embracing death almost from his birth and he realizes that grief is not an emotion, it is the fiber that weaves itself through everything in his life up to this epiphany: He has a purpose that only he can see and appreciate."
"Picture for a moment a man trying to sell roses to dead people.
The man knows that a rose equivocates love and he knows that the dead aren't buying it.
To be alive and in love with the peaceful oblivion of death is the quandary Bukowski finds himself in.
He is comfortable knowing he has afforded himself the luxury of embracing death almost from his birth and he realizes that grief is not an emotion, it is the fiber that weaves itself through everything in his life up to this epiphany: He has a purpose that only he can see and appreciate."
the only good poet
One retreat after another without peace.
That's really, really funny! And a lot of words for one line. There again, I was amazed how much could be gleaned from that little sucker, The Sick Rose.
the only good poet
One retreat after another without peace.
I think he's got a rainbow fetish.
Thanks for sharing this, but honestly, I just came back from teaching 14 loud 6-year old kids, and this stuff only worsened my headache.
Of course the rainbow video was the nail in the coffin.
Another quote to finish: "I was born for dying!". Who wrote that? METALLICA!!:die:
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
someone needs to scale back the peyote..
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
from the poem the old girl
mjp
Founding member
Is there an analysis of that line anywhere? I'm trying to figure out what it means.
"Destroying Beauty" from The Roominghouse Madrigals has Buk/Chinaski pulling apart a rose in his garage.
Not exactly a good reason for getting a rose-tattoo though...
Not exactly a good reason for getting a rose-tattoo though...
the only good poet
One retreat after another without peace.
Not to be a prick but...ah forget it.
My interpretation of ... I was born to hustle roses down the avenues of the dead... Means he has accepted his lot in life. It is the boring same old existence without much love. He can keep trying to sell roses to the dead but they will not buy because they are dead. He has tried many times to find happiness and love but it never works. He settles with a little bit of love and the few moments of joy that he gets here and there remembering those times fondly.
