Correspondance 1958-1994

Father Luke

Founding member
Anyone read this?

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Correspondance 1958-1994

Is it available in America?
 

hank solo

Just practicin' steps and keepin' outta the fights
Moderator
Founding member
I imagine its a translated selection from the letters previously published in the BSP volumes.
 

ROC

It is what it is
Nice cover.
Never seen that picture.

And you've got to love the translation...

In these new letters, Charles Bukowski delivers without false modesty and artifices the details of his daily newspaper

Can anyone think of a good name for a Bukowski newspaper?

But it goes on to say...
These letters come from three volumes of new correspondence in France "Howls of the balcony (1958-1970)", "Food while counting on the chance (1960-1970)" and "to reach the sun (1978-1994)"

Food while counting on the chance! hehehehehe! :D
 
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mjp

Founding member
That really makes you wonder what Bukowski is to someone who can only read a translation. Language is so subtle, translating poetry has always baffled me. It has to change in translation. Has to.
 

Father Luke

Founding member
Nice cover.
Never seen that picture.

Can anyone think of a good name for a Bukowski newspaper?

(snip)


Great picture, yeah. Anyone know who took it?
Are there more like it around somewhere?

A Bukowski newspaper, a Bukowski newspaper... (thinking)

Schadenfreude maybe, I dunn'o.
But I'm late for work and I gott'a scoot.
 
yeh, you can't translate anything without some loss.
In the same sense as you can't read anything in your Own language that's older than your own generation - without loss.

I dare say, reading Whitman (or even Hemingway) without any knowledge about the historical situation (or setting) is for a NATIVE English speaker as much a problem as reading a translation of Buk.

or (e.g.):
Reading some parts of the 'notes' (I'm especially thinking of the political essays in the book, like the one starting with "all the rivers are going to get higher" - p 62ff in my edition) without A LOT of knowledge about that very time (I could even tell what month (if not week) that was written, just by dating some mentions in it) - doesn't give you the full understanding.

Comparing the translations of Weissner to the originals I always find some things I definitely would do another way - but the whole thing is done WAY MORE than just very well. He's a kickass!


so, there are different ways of one could call 'translation'. I'd say, even a contemporary writing in one's own language is a problem whithout some knowledge of the authors world/context/bio/...


oh, btw, just for entertainment:
the best translation of Shakespeare into German is about 200 years old. Really! (from a cat named Schlegel.) - and the best German translation of Plato is just as old (by a guy named Schleiermacher). - and there were countless people who tried...
I guess, classics are just classics, eh?
(oh, one more thing: are there any 'classic' translations of Goethe's 'Faust' (part one) into English? I been wondering for over 15 years now...)
 

mjp

Founding member
In the same sense as you can't read anything in your Own language that's older than your own generation - without loss.
True. I think that was mentioned in a thread about Ginsberg/Howl. Of course it can't have the same impact now because the context is different.

You see the same thing in art, music, film - things that were downright revolutionary in their time seem quaint or commonplace now. I think of the first time I heard the Ramones or NWA's Straight outta Compton, or saw a Basquiat painting or the movie Eraserhead... ;) Those were all "what the fuck?!" everything-will-be-different-from-now-on kind of moments, but I would expect the average 15 year old to be bored by them today.

And every generation could cite different examples..."Eugene, remember the first automobile in St. Louis? The whole town ran out of their houses to watch it drive down the road!"

Ha.

It's all temporary, no need to worry about anything. ;)
 
right.
no need to "worry".

only, if we want to GIVE something to someone, we have to show him/her a Lot of the surrounding also.

And - most important - we'll have to do it in a way, that shows this person, that (tho it comes from different ages/societies/languages/etc) it DOES refer to THEIR life too!
It sure is more a question of FEELING than of Teaching.

Anyway, maybe I'm a fool, but I DO LOVE the movie 'Dead Poets Society'.
For me it made all the difference when I was 20. I still have this spirit inside me (and were able to teach that way when I was a tutor at my university).

Now I'm working on a 2-hour-lesson for English-scholars at 11th grade (about age 17 in Germany) together with an English-teacher. We will use this Bukowski-text from the 'notes', I mentioned already. The lessons will take place in mid-November. If we succeed, I'll spread this one all over the country (hehe). Will tell you about the success then, sure.
 
p.s.:
I sense, that some of your ironic 'fictional-quotations', you used the last times, have the character (or at least some familiarity - if this an English word) of the 'Generation X'-book by D. Coupland.
Am I a little right?
Anyway, I love 'em!
 

Father Luke

Founding member
That's one of the things about Bukowski.

Howl seems dated.
Whitman - dated.
Shakespeare
The Ramones
Hemingway
Hell, Mos Def seems dated and
Bukowski?

Current

Neat.
 

mjp

Founding member
I sense, that some of your ironic 'fictional-quotations', you used the last times...
I'm not sure which fictional quotations you mean...

...have the character (or at least some familiarity - if this an English word) of the 'Generation X'-book by D. Coupland.
Am I a little right?
I have not read that book.
 
mjp said:
"Okay, I finished the oil change...where's that new Bukowski book?"
mjp said:
And every generation could cite different examples..."Eugene, remember the first automobile in St. Louis? The whole town ran out of their houses to watch it drive down the road!"

Pseudo-quotes like that I mean.
Esp that last one comes a lot like in 'Generation X' (at least as I remember it).
It's not a 'big' book. No neccessity to read it. But nice for a change if you're just looking for something.
 

mjp

Founding member
Pseudo-quotes like that I mean.
Oh, okay. I thought everyone did that. Heh.

I looked at a few pages of that book on Google and it seems gimmicky to me, with the illustrations and "cool" typography. Not my cup of generational tea, I'm afraid.
 
... it seems gimmicky to me, with the illustrations and "cool" typography. Not my cup of generational tea, I'm afraid.

You're Right!
This book is definitely a child of it's time! (1991 -!) - which leads us back to the former topic, *hehe*. Life's a circle, ain't it?
 
MJP

Your post about NWA, Eraserhead, The Ramones, etc was one of the most brilliant posts I've read in some time. On this or any other forum. Not a big asskisser. But man, that was some sweet noise. Wow!



Thanks...
 

jordan

lothario speedwagon
i don't have enough of a command of other languages to really dig into translating something, but i've done a fair amount of work in translation studies, and my personal feeling is that the best way to translate is to get a feel for the language and try give a sense of how that might exist in the language into which you're translating (three cheers for run on sentences). celine is a good example of this... english translations of celine are pretty good, i think, because they don't try to be literal as much as they try to reproduce the fucked-upedness of celine's french into english. no, it's not the same, but the effect is the same (i think). translating bukowski into french would be about the same... trying to pick up the matter-of-factness of his language and reproduce it in french. to me, translation is much more creative writing than simple rendering.
 
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