Dinner rain/pain and transport (1 Viewer)

mjp

Founding member
Interesting that Open All Night reprints Dinner, rain and transport from It Catches... as Dinner, pain and transport.

Wonder if that was a typo or intentional. Seems like an odd change to make if it was intentional.



To answer the obvious question, no, I'm not compulsively pouring over the books looking for one letter changes, I'm working on the new database.
 

cirerita

Founding member
I guess we'll just never know... as I said in an old thread, when I pointed out obvious typos or repeated poems to Martin, he just made a gesture and dismissed the whole thing waving his hand, like saying: "so what?" or "who cares?"
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
Martin should know that many of Buk's readers do care. No room for being sloppy when dealing with works of genuis. Of course, the money will still roll in, but it's a crime. A small crime, but a crime.
 

mjp

Founding member
I always have to remind myself that Martin did initially seek out Bukowski, and he was a big fan of his work (in 1966 he said, "You could write a novel that would stop the earth's rotation!" https://bukowskiforum.com/showthread.php?t=64), so whatever other weird peccadilloes he had, and whatever bizarre editing choices he made, he is, without a doubt, the reason most of us are here on this site.

But I don't buy the argument some make that Bukowski would not have eventually found a large audience without Martin. Bukowski was a writing machine, and he would have continued to write and write and write and submit to literary magazines, but you can see that his output skyrocketed after he quit the post office, and Martin was partly responsible for that move. Having a publisher dedicated to his work made it possible for him to make that leap (not the paltry $100 a month).
 
Being sloppy is almost the entire point of Bukowskis writing.

'I write a lot of shit' - He said.

It was good shit too.
Fertiliser....
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
I think he felt sloppy was okay if it opened things up to energy and aliveness. In the best of the poetry, however, you see great care taken in word choice and phrasing ... no sloppiness there. The main goal in all his work was impact. Sloppy was just something that gave it flavor and the freedom he sometimes needed to get where he was going.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
mjp -- you're right. We all have to thank Martin for what he did for Bukowski and his work. My comment ...

Rekrab said:
Martin should know that many of Buk's readers do care. No room for being sloppy when dealing with works of genuis. Of course, the money will still roll in, but it's a crime. A small crime, but a crime.

...was out of line. No disrespect intended for Martin. I shouldn't type after two glasses of wine. I just don't think and crap comes out. For me, typos would be a big deal, but obviously Martin has seen the bigger picture all along, and had the vision and the guts to take Buk from being a small press cult hero to a world class major author. He deserves endless kudos for that. By the way, I think he comes off good in BORN INTO THIS, as does Linda B.
 

mjp

Founding member
I wasn't really picking on your statement, it just made me think. I've talked my fair share of shit about Martin, which is why I said that I, "...have to remind myself..." ;) But really, the complaints kind of pale in comparison to what he accomplished. I do have a tremendous amount of respect for what he's done.
 

hoochmonkey9

Art should be its own hammer.
Moderator
Founding member
I had a typo by a mag that I actually preferred. the line as written was he hated every last one of them and rathered them/ stupid, it was published as he hated every last one of them and gathered them / stupid.
I saw it right away, but reading the entire poem, it made sense. typo, or editorial input without the authors' consent? doesn't matter to me, in this case. now, if they got my name wrong...
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
mjp -- I didn't feel you were picking on my comment, but as soon as I read your post I knew I agreed, and realized I'd been shooting from hip, and stupidly. Wine makes me type any old words...if they sound okay, there they go. The next day I asked myself why in the hell I was slamming Martin, who has done so much for all of us Buk fans. He's the guy that made it all happen. I just had to come clean. Mea culpa!
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
On typos, I had a bad one in print recently, and it was my own fault. The word I'd used was so strange and unfamiliar and awkward, the editor (not you Bill) assumed I'd meant something else. Once I saw it in print, it was obvious to me that I could have used any number of better words that were clearer, simpler, less likely to be misunderstood. So I didn't blame the editor, or even point it out to him.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
Bill

I don't want to embarass the editor or have him think I'm complaining, so I'll send you a private message instead of posting it in the Forum. I'm always grateful for being published. It's an honor I do not take for granted.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi David,
No problem. I had misread your original post and thought that it was in one of the books that I published. In that case, I would have been outing myself. I would never want to enbarass anyone else.

All best,
Bill
 
Of course Bukowski was a writing machine, and he would have continued to write and write and write and submit to literary magazines, but you can see that his output skyrocketed after he quit the post office, and Martin was partly responsible for that move. Having a publisher dedicated to his work made it possible for him to make that leap (not the paltry $100 a month).
yes yes yes, mjp.
 
Interesting that Open All Night reprints Dinner, rain and transport from It Catches... as Dinner, pain and transport.

Wonder if that was a typo or intentional. Seems like an odd change to make if it was intentional.
I think "pain" is a typo that's inconsistent with the qualities of "dinner" and "transport" as outer, objective terms. It doesn't make sense to me to include the interior quality of "pain" with those objective references.

I believe that sometimes the problem may be with electronic proof-reading. The word "pain" doesn't show up to be flagged in that sentence because it's spelled correctly even though it may be the wrong word. That's why a proof-reading by hand is still necessary to catch such errors after the poem is entered in and spell-checked. And the farther editors are removed from the source of the original writings, like in a different publishing company, these kinds of errors are more likely unless the editors compare the words to the original manuscripts or the original Black Sparrow editions. While there are a number of complaints about Martin's editing, I was never bothered by any of the BS editions. I thought they were sufficiently well-organized with some thought behind them, and I was grateful despite the minor typos. Nevertheless, Bukowski deserves to have a definitive edition of his writings where all such conjecture as to his words and meanings are gone and his original intentions are carried out to the letter. If his writings are taken seriously over the years, this will happen because readers will continue to point out the errors. New publishers should know of these errors and inconsistencies by those who wish to inform them. I am reminded that yesterday in Sedona the skies opened and "it pained like cats and dogs" (!) and it rains me to make such a statement.
 
I would like to add that the 100$ probably did mean a lot to Bukowski, whom it seems was worried about money after leaving the post office. Probably why Post Office was written in 19 days, also.
 

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