Does Bukowski mention George Orwell? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Petey
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I'm not aware of any references made by Buk to 1984, or, to a book just as good--Animal Farm. There are members here with much more expertise who may know something, but personally, I'd be surprised if such a reference existed. As cool as the books are, they seem kind of academic--with their anti-utopian theory and all.
To me, it seems that Bukowski wasn't that political. He was more about the dailiness of life, and the toll that took on a person's soul vs. what toll any political dogma/system might've taken.
To me, it seems that Bukowski wasn't that political. He was more about the dailiness of life, and the toll that took on a person's soul vs. what toll any political dogma/system might've taken.
Don't recall Buk mentioning this book but he does mention Orwell's first book "Down and Out in Paris and London". Its sort of a documentary, a factotumish book describing Orwell's experiences in cheap jobs & on the bum in flophouses in France & London. Its a good read. Buk appreciates the book but says something like "I've been thru worse", if I recall correctly. Check out the index in his letters (I think).
I prefer Orwell's earlier books to 1984 which I find/found a bit heavy. Try "Coming up for Air" which still rings true in these war-mongering times...
Have you tried Huxley's "Brave New World"? Its better than 1984 and was published 15 years earlier... And Buk liked Huxley as well...
I prefer Orwell's earlier books to 1984 which I find/found a bit heavy. Try "Coming up for Air" which still rings true in these war-mongering times...
Have you tried Huxley's "Brave New World"? Its better than 1984 and was published 15 years earlier... And Buk liked Huxley as well...
"Down and out" was damned great but its tough to read 1984 without getting sucked into its iconic and epiphanied status. Its stylistic unusualness gets overpowered by its content and its critical acclaim. The metphors are thin, like Animal Farm, but the language is dark and heavy. I wish I could somehow read it freshly...localize, separate and toast the cells that recall that book. Too often things get overexposed by the jackasses (still love that one) and ruin it.
No writer has escaped that book (even if he hasnt read it).
No writer has escaped that book (even if he hasnt read it).
chronic
old and in the way
Brave New World better than 1984? Really??? I completely disagree with you on that one. BNW was a satire and is a good warm-up to Anthony Burgess' 1985 (also an absurdist satire). 1984 was deadly serious and much more effective as a novel IMO.
The first time that I read 1984 I was probably about 15 years old and didn't have much advance knowledge of the book or the hype that surrounded it. I was floored. All hype and expectations aside, it is a great novel.
Buk mentions Orwell's "Down and Out" in a 1974 interview with R. Wennersten: "I got the idea [for Factotum kind of, from Down and Out in Paris and London. I read that book and said, 'This guy thinks something has happened to him? Compared to me, he just got scratched." Not that it wasn't a good book, but it made me think I might have something interesting to say along those same lines." And he says the same thing in a 1975 interview with Marc Chenetier. Don't think he read 1984. And he was a bit ambivalent I think about Huxley. He writes about Huxley's friendship with DH Lawrence but I don't think he read Brave New World. I agree that he probably read zero in the genre of dystopia, utopia, "fantasy" (no JRR Tolkien!), etc
Good one Roni.
By the way, have you heard of a guy called Schultheiss (click) who has illustrated a Buk-story from ToOM? I just became aware of a Norwegian translation of this.
By the way, have you heard of a guy called Schultheiss (click) who has illustrated a Buk-story from ToOM? I just became aware of a Norwegian translation of this.
Matthias Schultheiss. I quite like his drawings. There's also the English comic 'A couple of winos'. The original 2 German books, 'Der Lange Job' and 'Kaputt in der City' have been translated into French before too. Not sure why they haven't come out in English. They've been around for a long time.
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
I can't scan any of the pages without damaging the albums in the scanner, but here's the covers and one of the pages. The first cover is from one of the two German albums - "Der Lange Job". The other cover is from the second album (the Danish version). It was called "Dregs" (as in dregs of society) in Danish ("Der Lange Job", was called "New York City On 95 Cents A Day").
I also found a single page on the net. I believe it's from the Spanish version.
I also found a single page on the net. I believe it's from the Spanish version.
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Yes...I loved it. I really saw Orwell in a different light after reading this book. While I appreciate the legacy and cultural importance of 1984 and Animal Farm when it comes down to it I don't particulary enjoy them as books, especially Animal Farm. 1984 was a good read but personally for a book to really chime with me I have to soak up the charcters passion and find something likeable and honest in them regardless of how heavily floored they are. While the Chinanski's and Bandini's ect. often do some despicable things I always warm to them and love them despite some of the terrible things they do, there's always something very human and honest in them. In 1984 I just didn't like any of the characters, the whole book felt very stale and lifeless. I just felt depressed reading it. I didn't care much for the plight of Winston at the end...I felt pity...but I just felt empty at the end of reading it. I'm guessing Orwell wrote this way on purpose to emhance the message...maybe not, but anyway Homage to Catalonia shows a completely different style and shows a warm humourous and touching side of Orwell.
I really want to read Down and out in Paris and London. From the desription I've got a feeling I'll really enjoy it.
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Very true. Great book. But my favourite Orwell is Keep the Aspidistra Flying, following the fortunes of a down and out poet, Gordon Comstock:
Gordon's wages were raised by ten shillings a
week. And it was now that Gordon grew frightened. Money was
getting him after all. He was sliding down, down, into the money-
sty. A little more and he would be stuck in it for life. It is
queer how these things happen. You set your face against success,
you swear never to Make Good--you honestly believe that you
couldn't Make Good even if you wanted to; and then something
happens along, some mere chance, and you find yourself Making Good
almost automatically. He saw that now or never was the time to
escape. He had got to get out of it--out of the money-world,
irrevocably, before he was too far involved.
week. And it was now that Gordon grew frightened. Money was
getting him after all. He was sliding down, down, into the money-
sty. A little more and he would be stuck in it for life. It is
queer how these things happen. You set your face against success,
you swear never to Make Good--you honestly believe that you
couldn't Make Good even if you wanted to; and then something
happens along, some mere chance, and you find yourself Making Good
almost automatically. He saw that now or never was the time to
escape. He had got to get out of it--out of the money-world,
irrevocably, before he was too far involved.
If you're looking for stories about life on the bum, my current avatar, Jack Black wrote about the early 19th century criminal underclass in You Can't Win. It was one of William S. Burroughs favourite books.
some of you guys make me want to read some of Orwell's other books.
And I will.
Up to now, I've only read 1984 (and tried to read Animal Farm but couldn't).
But however great the other books may be - and I trust you on this - there's nothing to say against 1984!
It's a little longer maybe, than necessary. But still a great great book!
"What happens to you here is forever [...] Things will happen to you from which you could not recover, if you lived a thousand years. Never again will you be capable of ordinary human feeling. Everything will be dead inside you. Never again will you be capable of love, or friendship, or joy of living, or laughter, or curiosity, or courage, or integrity. You will be hollow."
(from the protocols of Guantanamo Bay - AAH! Nope! Shit! my fault! sorry! - it's: 1984, p.268f [in my Penguin-edition of 1989])
And I will.
Up to now, I've only read 1984 (and tried to read Animal Farm but couldn't).
But however great the other books may be - and I trust you on this - there's nothing to say against 1984!
It's a little longer maybe, than necessary. But still a great great book!
"What happens to you here is forever [...] Things will happen to you from which you could not recover, if you lived a thousand years. Never again will you be capable of ordinary human feeling. Everything will be dead inside you. Never again will you be capable of love, or friendship, or joy of living, or laughter, or curiosity, or courage, or integrity. You will be hollow."
(from the protocols of Guantanamo Bay - AAH! Nope! Shit! my fault! sorry! - it's: 1984, p.268f [in my Penguin-edition of 1989])
http://www.booksatoz.com/witsend/tea/orwell.htm
As a die hard tea drinker (what Brit isn't?) I also love George Orwell's article about tea. I am glad he appreciates the importance of a good cup of tea. I am a complete tea fascist and I need complete control over the tea making so I get it "just right";)
Sorry to divert though.
As a die hard tea drinker (what Brit isn't?) I also love George Orwell's article about tea. I am glad he appreciates the importance of a good cup of tea. I am a complete tea fascist and I need complete control over the tea making so I get it "just right";)
Sorry to divert though.
As a fan of Douglas Adams (what Brit or German isn't?), I always liked his article about making tea.
Have googled it - it's available online!
yes, one of my favorite books of all time! i highly recommend it as well...
as well as orwell's "down and out" and hamsun's "hunger".
I tried and tried and tried to read it (at least 3 times) from about 16 to 18 years old. If you can read a diary you can read that. I just don't have the patience for most of it.
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Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Ninjerk, perhaps you got stuck on the one or two chapters where Orwell describes the political situation in great detail? As Orwell writes, those who are not interested in that, can just skip those chapters. Or perhaps you were just too young at the time? If you like Orwell's other books, then you should give "Homage To Catalonia" another chance. You can probably get hold of a copy at your local library...
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Olaf, he was just making an inside-joke referring to a very old post somewhere here, where someone claimed Bukowski to be a writer only for 15 yo boys. Or was it a book-review discussed here ...
If I recall correctly (and I probably do but don't remember where I read it) he once mentioned Orwell as part of a chain of "letters" in which Tolstoy criticized Shakespeare, Orwell criticized Tolstoy for criticizing Shakespeare...
Bukowsky says he never really liked any of them (his dislike of Shakespeare seems to have been very vehement and returns many times, I even remember him saying once that his whole goal in poetry can be taken as an assault on Shakespeare)
And as a side note I tend to agree on these verdicts. though I've read almost everything Orwell ever wrote during my teens and found his heart was generally in the right place he is over deductive and quite predictable.
Bukowsky says he never really liked any of them (his dislike of Shakespeare seems to have been very vehement and returns many times, I even remember him saying once that his whole goal in poetry can be taken as an assault on Shakespeare)
And as a side note I tend to agree on these verdicts. though I've read almost everything Orwell ever wrote during my teens and found his heart was generally in the right place he is over deductive and quite predictable.
Once I found a copy on a train, left on a seat by someone. I read it in one go, and it left me thinking for some time. The content is highly topical, more than ever before.
