Extra Page in Crucifix

Purple Stickpin

Over 5000 posts
I have two copies of this one. One is the "standard" version and the other has saffron-colored cover stock. This is not one of the 12 copies with a tipped-in aphorism, but it appears to have the same cover stock used for that variant.

The odd thing is that the saffron-covered copy has a page that the standard copy does not. In both copies, the final poem, A Nice Day, ends on page 101. In my standard copy, this is followed by a sheet of heavy blue stock that has Buk's signature on the overleaf. However, my saffron copy has a sheet of bond paper following page 101 with a brief bio of Noel Rockmore written by one Larry Borenstein, who was Gypsy Lou's sometime boss at Preservation Hall.

Anyone know whether this "extra" page was intended to be in every copy and my standard copy is missing this? I've attached a lousy photo of the page in question. It is printed in light gold type and even if I could learn to use a camera, it's tough to get a decent shot (while delicately holding the book open, to boot).

Extra_Page_Crucifix.JPG

Crucifix in a Deathhand.JPG
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Over 5000 posts
I have no evidence for this, but I would almost bet that this was done only on copies that Lou thought that Borenstein could have seen. They were careful to only send the correct printings of Outsider #2 to Kerouac. They fucked with his poem on other copies, but did not send those to him. He found out by accident a few years later. Maybe Borenstein wrote the piece and they did not want to include it, but felt pressured? I have had at least half a dozen copies of this book and don't ever remember seeing this. Could have missed it though? Was this the one that came from me that was signed to Borenstein or was that It Catches??
 

Purple Stickpin

Over 5000 posts
That was It Catches, so there's no personal connection to Borenstein on this one. I bought the saffron copy from that guy in Denmark who popped in about a year ago. It seems as if there's a decent chance that this page was only added to the saffron copies, or something.
 

mjp

Your Host
Moderator
Founding member
Over 5000 posts
I've never seen that page either.

I suspect Bill's right, that they bound it in to copies destined for Rockmore/Borenstein. Since it was outside of the regular run that could explain the yellow cover(s) too.
 

Purple Stickpin

Over 5000 posts
It's worth noting that Borenstein owned a gallery (as well as a significant chunk of the French Quarter at one point) and was Rockmore's agent or officially-licensed promoter, or something to that effect. So, it stands to reason that this page might have something to do with copies destined for their eyes.
 

Gary Eisenberg

RIP
Over 100 posts
I have one of the Borenstein copies. Here's a better image of that page, plus an image of the colophon pages

Bukowski-Crucifix-book-with.jpg


Bukowski-Crucifix-book-wiht.jpg


As most serious Buk collectors know, Webb was known to create numerous variants in small microcosmic "editions," like this one, for example.

I've attached a lousy photo of the page in question. It is printed in light gold type and even if I could learn to use a camera, it's tough to get a decent shot (while delicately holding the book open, to boot).
There are some tricks to making that metallic gold ink stand out. :)
 

mjp

Your Host
Moderator
Founding member
Over 5000 posts
I've never seen that page either.
Allow me to rephrase that: I've never noticed that page before.

This is my standard copy (if any copies of that book can be called "standard"):

P1020841.jpg


That page is printed on onionskin paper, for what it's worth, not bond. It would have been odd to slip a bond page into a lavish production like that.
 

Purple Stickpin

Over 5000 posts
Well, well. Now I can't tell if my standard copy is missing that page or if it was only included in certain copies. Yes, onionskin is the proper term, I suppose. It sort of resembles bond but is thinner.
 

Gary Eisenberg

RIP
Over 100 posts
That page is printed on onionskin paper, for what it's worth, not bond. It would have been odd to slip a bond page into a lavish production like that.
My copy has it printed on parchment paper, not onion skin. Just sayin.
 

mjp

Your Host
Moderator
Founding member
Over 5000 posts
If you're talking about the same paper that's used over the etchings in the book (which is what the Rockmore/Borenstein page in my copy is printed on) it seems much too lightweight to be parchment paper.

It's splitting hairs anyway, since I'd be surprised if 1 out of 1000 people would know the difference between the papers if both were on the table in front of them. Krumhansl calls those pages "tissue."


It occurs to me that we just passed the 50th anniversary for this book. It seems much older than that, but maybe that's just because I'm old, and 50 years seems like nothing.
 
Last edited:

Purple Stickpin

Over 5000 posts
It seems odd to me that someone would have removes that page from my standard copy, but who knows? Since there were variants from Loujon, it's certainly possible that mine simply never had it. Was it an oversight? I suppose when I eventually sell it, I'd like to be forthright without shooting myself in the foot if many other copies don't have it.
 

Gary Eisenberg

RIP
Over 100 posts
It's splitting hairs anyway...
Not splitting hairs. I know my paper. I'm a printmaker. MY copy has parchment. I've not seen YOUR copy so I have not a CLUE what kind of paper was used. And it is NOT lightweight paper. Just sayin. :) P.S. I don't give a rat's ass about the 999 people who don't know the difference. I know the difference. And that's what matters to me. Do you see? :) GE And Krumhansl can wipe his derriere with that tissue. It ain't tissue. At least MY copy ain't tissue.
 

Purple Stickpin

Over 5000 posts
At least MY copy ain't tissue.
You might want to put that martini in your avatar down for a second and consider that all I'm looking for here is some degree of statistical validity that the Rockmore bio page is a page that was supposed to be in all of the copies or was selected for certain copies. Although I'll likely never get a statistically-representative sample, some inkling would be nice.

And while you're at it, drop the superiority just for the sake of it. My colophon pages in the two versions of Crucifix are printed on completely different types of paper. At the risk of sounding like an idiot to your ears, one is on a flecked tan "parchment" (forgive me for using your word if it is incorrect) and the other is on a white, very fibrous hand-made paper. This does suggest that not every copy has onion skin, parchment, or rocky mountain bunghole papyrus for each of the corresponding pages - there was variability. I've enjoyed your input so far and we deeply respect knowledge here, but superiority, not so much. If you have superiority in a certain area, please instruct us rather than lecturing or denigrating us. I'm a nobody, but don't be a dink if you don't really, really, really, feel an unbridled need to do so.
 
Last edited:
Just checked my copy, which has a 3/20/65 date, and I have the Rockmore page also. I would call it tissue as well. Nothing like the legendary "Eisenberg variant," but good enough for me. Whatever you call that fucking page, I'd still rather have an extra poem there than that Rockmore piece.
 

mjp

Your Host
Moderator
Founding member
Over 5000 posts
The "Eisenberg variant"?

And here I thought it was the Eisenberg uncertainty principle at work...
 

Purple Stickpin

Over 5000 posts
There are many reasons why I shouldn't dredge this thread up once again, but only one good one to do so:

I finally took a closer look at the internal binding and indeed, I have a copy of Crucifix from which that page has been torn. There is clear tear residual buried close to the binding that I didn't see until flexing that page open a bit. I didn't really want to do it, but I'm glad (not really) I did, because I now own a ~$100 book that I paid some $275 for about 7-8 years ago. I don't blame the seller nor even myself; it's just one of those oddities that comes out on further inspection.

Well crap, but my life ain't ruined or nuthin'.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Over 5000 posts
I finally took a closer look at the internal binding and indeed, I have a copy of Crucifix from which that page has been torn. There is clear tear residual buried close to the binding that I didn't see until flexing that page open a bit.
These books are so unpredictable with pages and colors and etc. It is possible that Gypsy Lou took the page out for whatever reason. I'd not devalue that book for that reason. Worth mentioning if you sell, but that is still a $300 book. Just like an extra page would not devalue it, I'd consider this a binders variant. There is no reason that anyone except the Webbs would remove this page. Maybe they were pissed at Boorstein or Rockwell. Jon Webb liked playing with people a bit it seems (judging from the Outsider #2 Kerouac variants.) So maybe he was pissed at one of them and decided to remove that page. Does anyone else have the book without that page?
Bill

p.s. Was I the seller of that book?
 

Purple Stickpin

Over 5000 posts
p.s. Was I the seller of that book?
I don't believe so; I think it came from an ebay sale about six or seven years ago. There's really no practical way that someone would readily identify this. I doubt booksellers thumb through every page of every book they sell. Still, a bit disappointing.

...Worth mentioning if you sell, but that is still a $300 book. Just like an extra page would not devalue it, I'd consider this a binders variant.
I'll certainly mention it when I sell (if I get to it before the ole dirt nap), and while I appreciate your input, I doubt that most buyers would agree with you. I will certainly direct any possible buyers to this thread, just in case it helps a bit. This is a case of a very rare book (hell, it may the only copy of 3,100 to have this page torn out!) that does not benefit from its rarity.
 
Top