"Find what you love and let it kill you"

mjp

Founding member
Over 5000 posts
#2
Note - to save everyone the trouble of reading this entire meandering, offensive, uncalled for, misogynist, good-for-nothing thread, here is the tl;dr version: the quote does not come from Bukowski, it comes from singer/songwriter Kinky Friedman (via Nietzsche, apparently).

- The management.


This is credited to Bukowski everywhere...
It is? When I Google that I get a song from the whimsically named Johnny Berlin.

It isn't from a Bukowski book. It would have to be from an interview or film/video. Maybe someone can find it, but for what it's worth, it doesn't sound like Bukowski to me. Urging humanity to find what it loves. Sure.

But I'm almost always wrong.
 
#3
Yes, Google comes up with a Johnny Berlin song at the top. Google the quote with Bukowski and you'll find many quote sites that attribute Bukowski. That's how it first came to me: attributed to Bukowski. I thought maybe the song came from the quote.

Like I said, I can't find a source anywhere, which is why I've come to doubt that it was actually Bukowski.
 
#5
It is a quote from a letter:

"My dear,
Find what you love and let it kill you. Let it drain from you your all. Let it cling onto your back and weigh you down into eventual nothingness. Let it kill you, and let it devour your remains.

For all things will kill you, both slowly and fastly, but it's much better to be killed by a lover.

Falsely yours,
Henry Charles Bukowski"
 
#8
hoochmonkey9: I have just Googled it and found it from a source (tumblr - unfortunately with no additional reference at all, so I decided just to quote it with this lovely (") symbols that are clearly stating it's not something my genius head came up with) that has nothing to do with Carla's Culver City connection. Please clarify why do you think I should be sourcing Carla's treasuries as it's not clear enough for me.

mjp: This letter is published here and there on the net (I have no rights on the content whatsoever). Please follow the links bellow.
http://pinterest.com/pin/273875221061605295/
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/677...ove-and-let-it-kill?auto_login_attempted=true
http://rep0sed.tumblr.com/post/42597832253/my-dear-find-what-you-love-and-let-it-kill-you
I am sure you will be able to research a bit deeper. :)
 

hank solo

Just practicin' steps and keepin' outta the fights
Founding member
Over 1000 posts
#9
Oh - you googled it. Then it must be true.

The point being made above is that so far no verifiable source has appeared that proves that this 'web quote' is actually genuinely by Charles Bukowski. Being all over tumblr and facebook is no proof at all.

But thanks for introducing this 'google' thing to us luddites.

:acb:
 
#10
Just wanted to help. Shared my thoughts and left the additional research for you and your lads :)

I came up with the letter on tumblr, found it interesting and then I saw the post here and decided to share my findings. Hmm, I haven't said it MUST be true (because I Googled it), however no one have provided contrary research or something for discussion at all... Oh yes, it is so much easier to criticize instead of research deeper if you are not happy with my sources and/or findings.
 

mjp

Founding member
Over 5000 posts
#11
no one have provided contrary research or something for discussion at all...
Ah, I remember being a 20 year old girl and thinking I knew everything. Eventually I learned that I only know most things.

In the real world you don't have to prove that something is not, you have to prove that it is. No one has so far proven that clumsy quote came from Bukowski's mouth or typewriter, and I'm quite confident that no one ever will.

Now I have to run along and weigh in with my expert opinion on Bukowski's drawings, so you have a good day, sweetheart.
 

Hosh

hoshomccreesh.com
Over 1000 posts
#12
Kari -- my guess is, if it was a Bukowski line, and it had been published ANYWHERE, the people on this board would know it.

And if not know it, then they'd certainly find it...and pretty damn quickly too. As they've done with lots of things like this over the years.

I suspect everyone DID do their own kinds of research -- hardly exhaustive, probably -- but some quick, cursory research. And, finding nothing, they wanted to know where you'd found it. Folks spend a lot of time debunking untruths here, so suggesting they haven't bothered to look is mighty green. I think what folks are saying, without actually saying it, is to bring evidence -- not conjecture -- to the discussion. Do that, and I bet the reception you get will be much, much different.
 

mjp

Founding member
Over 5000 posts
#13
I was going to reply, "Who let the fag in?" but I'm pretty sure that would be misunderstood, since Hosho McCreesh is all man.

As Kari - and hundreds of other satisfied young girls across the globe - can attest.
 
#15
At the risk of getting my head bitten off due to the hostility towards young women in this post....

In my first year of university I studied a reading that was a transcript from a small writers convention that Bukowski spoke at. It was from 1962 and it quoted him saying the above 'letter', he then went on to speak about how a writers inspiration or artist's 'sensivitism and eccentricism' can often be the demise of one's self. He also said that it was from a larger peice of writing that had not yet been published (couldn't say whether it has been since). It was a couple of years ago now so I can't post a citation, but i might have a look on my universities data base and see if I can find it anywhere and post a link up here.

I'm sorry about the vagueness, but it was a couple years ago now so my memory of it just isn't that good.
 

hank solo

Just practicin' steps and keepin' outta the fights
Founding member
Over 1000 posts
#16
It was a couple of years ago now so I can't post a citation, but i might have a look on my universities data base and see if I can find it anywhere and post a link up here.

I'm sorry about the vagueness, but it was a couple years ago now so my memory of it just isn't that good.
I'm sure that would be greatly appreciated by everyone. Thanks.
 

Otto jr

Over 100 posts
#17
I would love to get a look at that transcript. I have a little bit of trouble imagining that Buk would want to be a part of a writer's convention, and 1962 seems a little bit early for someone to invite him to speak at one. He had only published a very scarce amount of his work at that point. It is not impossible though.
I have to say also: ever since the first time I saw this quote attributed to Bukowski, I was extremely skeptical. It just doesn't sound like him. If he wrote it; then maybe it was in a letter to S. Martinelli. His writing to her seems odd in comparison to his usual style.
 

mjp

Founding member
Over 5000 posts
#19
There are so many potential responses to this that I can't choose just one. So I will provide a variety for you to choose from.


At the risk of getting my head bitten off due to the hostility towards young women in this post....
You are mistaking hostility toward idiocy for misogyny.


I can't post a citation...I'm sorry about the vagueness...
Which is the same thing as saying, "I Googled it."


In my first year of university
In which year of university did they remove your sense of humor?


it was a couple years ago now so my memory of it just isn't that good.
Well that's good news! Your age makes you unqualified to be on the receiving end of any hostile misogyny aimed at young women.


i might have a look on my universities data base and see if I can find it anywhere and post a link up here.
What Hank said.


Pics or it didn't happen.

Thank you.
 

Skygazer

And in the end...
Over 500 posts
#20
Ladies, Ladies, come on, are everyone's ovaries giving them gyp here?? PS I'm so scared to post this, 'cos a I fear a mountain of fury and barbs are going to rain down on me, deep breath here, I'm going in.....

On a more serious note, I don't believe there was any misogyny whatsoever. I suspect that had a young male student came on the forum announcing, very sweetly and innocently as Kari did, the source of a supposed quote, I fear that he would have been blasted to smithereens for not being more fully prepared or armed with facts ( in that respect I think mjp let her off rather gently, as befits her years, with , wait for it....humour!). The same situation applies to Helena, please if you are going to argue your case, be better prepared.
That new fabulous word coined by Stephen Colbert"Truthiness" certainly applies here:

Truthiness is a quality characterizing a "truth" that a person making an argument or assertion claims to know intuitively "from the gut" or because it "feels right" without regard to evidence, logic, intellectual examination, or facts.[1]
 

mjp

Founding member
Over 5000 posts
#21
That anyone could find hostility or fury or anything remotely approaching them in any post in this thread (or anywhere on this forum for that matter) is pretty funny. The same goes for misogyny. You've got to be kidding.

I have to wonder what some of these sensitive souls would do if they ever encountered real hostility. I fear the poor babies would melt into a pool of whimpering butter that would be licked up by feral cats.
 

Skygazer

And in the end...
Over 500 posts
#23
Ok, enough, they're just babies and as such are finding their feet and claws.We were all that innocent and young once, quit while you are ahead and let them lick their wounds.May be sounding a bit sentimental here as daughter away on a sleepover (hooray!) and I am now on my 3rd glass of wine and further intellectual debate will be beyond me.
 
#24
I'm pretty sure this is somewhere in The Captain is Out to Lunch and the Sailors Have Taken Over the Ship, but I lent my copy to a friend and he hasn't given it back yet, so I can't confirm that. But I definitely remember reading that in an actual book and not on the internet.
 

hank solo

Just practicin' steps and keepin' outta the fights
Founding member
Over 1000 posts
#25
It definitely isn't in The Captain is Out to Lunch...

It isn't in any of the Black Sparrow / Ecco books.
 

mjp

Founding member
Over 5000 posts
#26
I definitely remember reading that in an actual book and not on the internet.
Allow me to make an offer then, to you or to anyone else who may be reading this:

If you can cite that quote in anything published during Bukowski's lifetime (that's an important distinction, for reasons that should be obvious by now), I will send you a signed, numbered Black Sparrow Bukowski book, along with a hundred dollar bill to use as a bookmark.

There, how's that?
 

mjp

Founding member
Over 5000 posts
#29
I'll be sure to post here if I find it.
Thanks. When I'm not occupied counting the minutes to 'never,' I'll keep myself busy not addressing a package to you.

And thanks for redacting the haughty "go on and prove us wrong" remark.
Oh, you're more than welcome.

I mean, honestly, I couldn't live with myself if I thought that even one teenage idiot, delusional beard-scratcher or passive-aggressive jughead believed me to be "haughty"! Imagine the consternation that would cause and shame I would experience!

Feel free to wait around and see if I redact that.
 
#30
Wow - please forgive me for thinking that an online forum for an author whose work I enjoy would be anything but a pissing contest for pretentious, basement-dwelling internet bullies. I'd love to see how someone like yourself behaves in the real world (though I doubt someone who spends as much time on this site as you apparently do is very familiar with the real world), as opposed to on a message board where you're safe and sound, tucked away from people who don't like to be talked down to. I bet you're a real sweetheart in person.

Anyway, rather than allowing myself to become involved any further in this pissing contest, I'll hand this victory over to you, just so you can feel like you've accomplished something other than just being a complete prick to someone you'll never have to meet in real life. I'll just go back to scratching my beard, and, you know, being a jughead, and you can continue to insult strangers from afar.