Graffitti, slang and fine British insults

[ROC]

[Split from thread about an entirely different subject]

I see graffit as art, partly because some of it is beautiful/ugly and partly because its subversive and reclaiming public space for the masses.

And this makes no bloody sense at all.

What, is public space set aside for some hidden elite?

That space is public means just that, and that some individuals without consent should spray paint their names on a blank wall is just a pure wank - not art or anything at all.

There are cafes around here that have paid graffiti artists to do their walls, and they look fantastic. Then some tosser comes along and tags the wall 800 times.

oh whatever... now I just sound old.

 

[adrian]

I'm 43 and reckon some graffitti looks great. But you're right, when some wanker comes along and adds crap graffitti to good graffitti, it frigs it up

p.s. there's a large mural on a wall here of Aborigines in chains, as a reminder of what went on here long ago. It's been there in perfect condition for 20+ years now. I'm glad nobody has come along and ruined it

 

[Benwa]

And this makes no bloody sense at all.

What, is public space set aside for some hidden elite?

That space is public means just that, and that some individuals without consent should spray paint their names on a blank wall is just a pure wank - not art or anything at all.

There are cafes around here that have paid graffiti artists to do their walls, and they look fantastic. Then some tosser comes along and tags the wall 800 times.

oh whatever... now I just sound old.

And this proves my point. I view it as art and expression and you do not, just a difference of taste.

Think how many advertisements go up in public space with no ones consent, except a person who has a dollar to throw away. You are being bombarded with messages that you never consented to. Pumped into your skull without your say so. Drink Coke! I Said Drink it Mother Fucker!

Being american, I have to say I love slang of other countries. Tosser is very good. I'm assuming it refers to a jack off thing. So much more polite and lovely. Thats what I love about UK slang, can be so vulgar yet so polite. Tosser! American slang is so blunt. UK stuff is so much better! I should move there. You can be insulted yet feel you should tip your hat to the man. Not in the US. "You're a shit filled cunt!" "Well thank you sir!" "Fancy a pint do ya?" Just doesn't fit. America is just too damn mean. Insults are meant to stick and make you go home and beat your wife or yell at the guy at the drive thru window. "someone made my day shitty, now I'm gonna make your day shitty." The american way.

If a cafe commisions the graffiti then I don't think it qualifies as graffiti. But really I see the writing over of graffiti as art. Ideally it should be done well. But just like any other art, most of it just doesn't get me. You either need some astonishing technical skills or play from your soul. Skill or heart, thats it for me.

 

[ROC]

hehe...
yeah....
tosser is pretty good isn't it :D
But then... so is this....

"You're a shit filled cunt!" "Well thank you sir!" "Fancy a pint do ya?" Just doesn't fit. America is just too damn mean. Insults are meant to stick and make you go home and beat your wife or yell at the guy at the drive thru window. "someone made my day shitty, now I'm gonna make your day shitty." The american way.

I laughed out loud... so,

Thanks!

 

[mjp]

And this proves my point. I view it as art and expression and you do not, just a difference of taste.

So if I drive through Los Angeles breaking taggers kneecaps with a tire iron, can I claim that as an expression of my art (my art being crippling the fuckers so they can't tag again)?

The funny thing about tagging (I'll separate tagging from "graffiti" here, tagging being spray painted, markered or scratched nicknames, graffiti being - potentially, but not exclusively - "art") is you never hear people who live in neighborhoods infested with tagging defending it as art. They know what it means and they want it to go away.

But people with enough distance from it, and the free time to debate things like 'tagging as art' do so, oblivious to the underlying destructive message of the tagging. You can't compare tagging to billboards until gangs start putting up billboards disputing territory and threatening or celebrating the murder of their rivals.

Tagging may be cute in some places where the rambunctious local teens are doing a little lite tagging with a MeanStreak pen on the side of the Starbucks, but it's not cute in places with large gang populations. It's an ominous and ugly form of territorial pissing, and only an idiot would defend it by deeming it to be art.

Not that I have an opinion one way or the other, mind you. ;)

Anyway, if you think I'm overreacting you should come and spend some time here. People have been murdered in the street 20 feet from my front door, in front of my friend's home, murdered in the Subway restaurant, murdered in the god damn post office in broad daylight. And that's just recent things I know of here in San Pedro, population 50,000 in a city of 4 million and a county of 10 million. You do the exponential violence math, I'm too lazy (and busy cleaning and oiling the Colt).

These are affiliates of the budding young tagging artistes you hold in such high esteem. Please show me an example of people keeping pepper spray, baseball bats and guns in their homes to protect themselves from Jackson Pollack or Andy Warhol, then I'll buy the tagging/art connection.

 

[bongobill]

well put, mjp

i agree 100%

 

[Short Bus]

Good points MJP.
I read (from Canada) the homicide report in the LA times and I am completely amazed how many people die each freaking day. Whats worse is may of them have no connections to gangs but are victims of gang related violence.We're talking about mothers taking their kids to Mcdonalds, uncles in the front lawn of a kids birthday-check this out
http://www.mediachannel.org/links/links-frameset.html
Apologies if tis a bit off topic but I thought it adds weight to the insanity some people live in.
Here is an example
Los Angeles Sheriff's Dets. Angus Ferguson and Richard Ramirez say they have solved the killing of 19-year-old Cal State Northridge student Dion Miles, left, killed for inadvertantly wearing red clothing in a neighborhood claimed by a Crip gang last week.

Dead for wearing freaking RED?! well at least I've made the connection to art...

 

[ROC]

I now see how mjp has been using his website to suck the thoughts out of my head whenever I log on and claim them as his own. Spooky stuff.

So if I drive through Los Angeles breaking taggers kneecaps with a tire iron, can I claim that as an expression of my art (my art being crippling the fuckers so they can't tag again)?

The funny thing about tagging (I'll separate tagging from "graffiti" here, tagging being spray painted, markered or scratched nicknames, graffiti being - potentially, but not exclusively - "art") is you never hear people who live in neighborhoods infested with tagging defending it as art. They know what it means and they want it to go away.

But people with enough distance from it, and the free time to debate things like 'tagging as art' do so, oblivious to the underlying destructive message of the tagging. You can't compare tagging to billboards until gangs start putting up billboards disputing territory and threatening or celebrating the murder of their rivals.

Tagging may be cute in some places where the rambunctious local teens are doing a little lite tagging with a MeanStreak pen on the side of the Starbucks, but it's not cute in places with large gang populations. It's an ominous and ugly form of territorial pissing, and only an idiot would defend it by deeming it to be art.

100-god damned-%

 

[Black Swan]

A guru telling my friend Ambika on vegan diet, not to worry so much about what goes into her mouth but watch what comes out of it. Do not worry so much about what you see with your eyes such as graffiti but worry about what comes out of yours eyes like puss or tears or dirty looks.

 

[ROC]

Sage advice re what comes out of the mouth, sure. But not applicable, I feel, to the eyes.

 

[Olaf]

http://www.banksy.co.uk/

Banksy is a great british graffiti artist, very polemic, provocative pieces, ALWAYS stimulating your sloth.

Sprays such lines as: I WANT TO BE A NON-CONFORMIST JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE.

Tagging is shit, it's a Scribble, when Graffiti is the equivalent to a large canvas piece.

Saluti!

 

[ROC]

that's cool stuff

 

[pig ear press]

Here some great examples of a street transformed by Graffitti art in my home town of Brighton (UK version)

http://delarge.co.uk/gallery/?72157594210674535

Our local council took the enlightened move to pay a group of local graffitti artists to brighten up a street which was run down. There is a lot of talent around the world being sprayed out on walls and I think this is a good way of putting a positive spin on a much maligned form.

However I do agree that tagging can be a blight on any community and I can only presume they're writing their name everywhere in case they forget who they are.

As for the English insult discussion I think you'd need to visit some of our glorious council estates to see there is nothing Dickensian or charming about the filth that spews out of some peoples mouths.
The two Hugh's (Laurie and Grant) famous in the States only help to compound the stereotype that we Brits are jolly good fellows.

Any way old chaps I'm off for a light ale down at me old drinking hole, wot wot! ;)


I took so long posting this Olaf snuck in and posted some stuff by Banksy. He lives in Brighton and so his stuff is everywhere. Did anyone see his interpretation of stone henge using porta-loos?

 

[slimedog]

Tagging sucks, but young graffiti artists are great. I work one night a week at the local YMCA and my young boss is a graffiti artist. Him and his frinds painted a mural in the Teen center and he goes to deserted places to put up his art, I think it's pretty neat. Lots of good points by Benwa.

 

[Black Swan]

Sage advice re what comes out of the mouth, sure. But not applicable, I feel, to the eyes.

Hi, just kidding about the eyes. I don't know exactly how I feel about the graffiti thing. I am a painter who would hate to live in a clinical place where bold colors and artistic expression would be controlled by ignorant bureaucratic pencil pushers. Here in Montreal Canada there are a lot of beautiful graffitis around the city but I think that artists require a permit to do public buildings but still several graffitis bloom overnight which is exciting to me. Although I would hate distastful stuff on my old truck.