HAM ON RYE (1 Viewer)

[beerbelly666]

i finished this in a single day yesterday. it was pretty incredible. it wasnt as good as FACTOTUM. but the good parts of HAM ON RYE are on a different level. parts of the novel are "laugh out loud". there is the part where chinaski is on army training and another one where he attends a nazi meeting. they really cracked me up. i was in a restaurant reading this and the waiters were watching me laugh loudly.

but the problem with HAM ON RYE - bukowski's father character was not fleshed out very well. somehow i could not believe his cruelty. it seemed to me that bukowski sort of purposely overdid that part to show what a terrible childhood he had.

but overall, HAM ON RYE is incredibly humorous. even though the humor situations actually show chinaski's despair. its a bit like CATCHER IN THE RYE. there is a line in catcher that goes - yes life is good if you're in the team with the big shots. but if you're on the other side, there is no way it is good. and that what ham on rye is all about. how the weak and the maladjusted are forever at the mercy of the strong and the beautiful. and how there is really no way out of it. even if you're a tough guy, you still get pounded if you're not on the right side.

 

[informal]

You are absolutely right in your own way of course but I am somewhat prejudiced towards you for the fact that you credited it under Factotum. When it comes to my reasoning I find it hard putting one novel above another when it comes to Bukowski. I'm sure this will be moved to some 'Ham On Rye' thread if there isn't already one. Considering the way this forum works this will be probably moved to the 'Books' section here at Buk.net, yet this is the 'All thing Bukowski' section...

"Bukowski's father character was not fleshed out very well" ... THE DISDAIN! Don't get me wrong, I also don't believe everything I read but you're taking critical shots at a powerful novel. I commend you sir!

 

[Purple Stickpin]

Whether or not you feel as thought Buk's Father was fleshed out or not, there's a certain continuity in Buk's writing that extends from his poems to his novels (in general, the short stories tend to be isolated works, although there is some connectivity there, too). His Father was deeply fleshed out in any number of poems scattered across his poetical works.

What I mean is that the novels read better if you've digested the poems as well. Now, you may not prefer that and perhaps that isn't the easiest way to go about things, but that's it, and I say goddamn good for it. One Heinrich Karl Bukowski's writing draws upon where his brain was at at any given time and I enjoy the challenge of finding stuff in the poems that sheds even a small bit of light on a novel pasage I may have read 20 years ago. No, it isn't easy - and that's no surprise either.

 

[Bill Sikes]

"HAM ON RYE is incredibly humorous."


hmmm...??

 

[beerbelly666]

what?

 

[mjp]

Exactly.

 

[Bill Sikes]

"What"
"Exactly"


It wasn't intended to be humorous -

 

[beerbelly666]

hey bill, did you not read the whole post?this is what i wrote:

but overall, HAM ON RYE is incredibly humorous. even though the humor situations actually show chinaski's despair.

 

[Bill Sikes]

Despair - very good description! And, yes I took it out of context - I apologize:oops:

 

[beerbelly666]

its allright :)

 

[peka9]

thats what i like to see. apologies and forgiveness

 

[esart]

but the problem with HAM ON RYE - bukowski's father character was not fleshed out very well. somehow i could not believe his cruelty. it seemed to me that bukowski sort of purposely overdid that part to show what a terrible childhood he had.

That's too bad that you could not believe it, as it is a good amount of what wound up forming the man as we know him. I read that book when I was a kid myself, around the same time Henry was cutting that lawn so precisely and getting scrutinized and beaten for every blade of grass out of place -- and I identified with him because I had an old man just like his. Believe it. There is cruelty in this world. People are not good to each other.

 

[BudaTheStone]

Plus the numerous accounts from his prose through poetry also seems to be recalling the very same man with the very same details indicates Buk was not making it up and never did.

 

[beerbelly666]

i would have to check those poems. i just felt that some of the cruelty had no meaning. like it was there just for the shock value. i'll post after i read it again. cheers.

 

[Gin Soaked Boy]

Child abuse rarely has any rational meaning.

 

[mjp]

i just felt that some of the cruelty had no meaning. like it was there just for the shock value.

Yeah, but we've already established that you're a fucking moron. So don't forget to take that into consideration.

 

[Stavrogin]

We've established that he's a fucking moron? Sad, but probably true. True in the sense that The Word has been spoken. Keep reading, beerbelly666, you'll discover his Father was a true irritant and focal point of his rebellion. Doesn't make you a moron but perhaps ignorant of your initial assessment.

 

[beerbelly666]

Yeah, but we've already established that you're a fucking moron. So don't forget to take that into consideration.

mjp cannot speak for himself, he is trying to garner support lol. he been having a tough week with arguments on multiple threads. and he has been found out pretty badly. he was scared of arguing with me so he locked the PULP thread. so you've been thrown off the saddle. now act like a man and get back on the horse, mjp.

 

[d gray]

i just felt that some of the cruelty had no meaning. like it was there just for the shock value. i'll post after i read it again. cheers.

you felt a cruel father beating his young child had no meaning???

wow, i hope you never have kids...

 

[beerbelly666]

..... i meant, it was cruelty without any meaning. it seemed like a way of life for that father character. i was just wondering why. i wasnt entirely convinced by it. you have a problem with comprehension. i did say that i felt like it was there just for shock value.

 

[d gray]

i have a challenge for you - try to make even less sense than you've made so far...

and you're right, i do have a problem comprehending you.

 

[mjp]

We've established that he's a fucking moron?

Well, I could have said "I have," but really, he did it himself. I don't want to take credit for his work.

 

[bospress.net]

Donald Trump would hate you...

 

[Bukfan]

Was he even born in the U.S.? I want to see his birth certificate!

 

[esart]

I think Beerbelly666 is a troll! Saying Buk's child abuse was written about for shock value? WTF? I'm done with trying to educate this guy. He's full of it.

 

[BudaTheStone]

Really guys, I have the feeling you been sucking you own asses for sure. If Buk would have been able to see this, he would have been feeling guilt for sure that his name is used for such cheap justifications and attached to things he have never made his name accumstomed to. This whole forum is like a whole fuckin' piling shit because of all the fuckin egocentric assholes and censorship you been putting on (see Pulp). It's a fuckin a joke. Not even Buk would have allowed it even if it would have been on agreement with all your elitish bullshit you guys come up with. but anyway, let's just stick together and hide behind all yourselves... its fuckin pathetic. Anyway, enjoy your fuckin livin' and make yourself sure that You're the best of the whole cunt and this forum that all that matters is the best for your fuckin' mansion.

"beware those quick to praise
for they need praise in return
beware those who are quick to censor
they are afraid of what they do not know
beware those who seek constant crowds for
they are nothing alone"

Buk is the best of all you guys and merely not you. Censor this motherfuckers

 

[d gray]

nevermind...

 

[bospress.net]

FUCK YOU.

Mr. Originality should have read more in the forum to see how stale it is to 1) accuse us censorship and 2) claim that buk would hate us.

At least come up with something original, ass. this one has been played to death, youngster.

 

[esart]

What's with this guy now? He's a lunatic! Censorship? Oy vhey! People don't know the difference between diplomacy and censorship, a blog from a forum, their ass from a hole in the wall... I think this guy is the same person as beerbelly, or they are friends. They at least both have come here to stir shit up.

And I don't suck anyone's ass around here just because I don't suck yours!

 

[peka9]

claiming buk would hate people on this site is a pretty lame thing to say. anyway it wouldn't matter either way.

 

[esart]

True. Claiming to know what anyone else would think about anything is lame.

 

[mjp]

Hmm, well, I guess this puts an end to any question of whether beerbong and budastone are pals. And now closing a thread is considered censorship - oh my, what big salty tears they cry! It makes me so sad.

Funny, really, considering that neither one of them posts from a country that isn't rife with very real censorship in everyday life. But they come here and suddenly grow some balls and complain. Will wonders never cease?

 

[esart]

Didn't you say one was Hungarian? They are going through some crazy changes right now - politically. One day I will go there and see the land where my grandfather came from, but not now. It's nutty there right now.

...But then again they could be on a proxy.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

Where's my mansion? I must have missed the e-mail or something.

 

[Johannes]

Shit, all of this is on the Bukowski-would-have-hated-it-list.

ALL OF IT!

I have the list here. It's in my desk drawer.

 

[bospress.net]

it is the last refuge of scoundrels and trolls.

 

[hank solo]

Personally, I think people who come here with the 'Bukowski would hate this site, he would hate you' line are deluded. I guess they think that they would be pals with 'ol' Buk'. When he was alive, they were the one's turning up at his door with a 6-pack and a stupid shit eating grin.

"Stick that beer up your ass."

 

[d gray]

please, bukowski would've loved this place.

he appreciated all attention, he was just too conflicted to show it (for the most part)

 

[hoochmonkey9]

coming soon to a t shirt near you...

a BudaBelly666 production!

 

[christopher]

7 chapters into Ham On Rye. It is my least favorite novel so far.