hollywood #'d ed... just got it today (1 Viewer)

jordan

lothario speedwagon
i wasn't thrilled with the condition, so i demanded a $150 refund... i didn't expect to get it, and had already packed the book up to send it back, but the guy came through with it.

i cleaned it up with a document cleaning pad tonight, which made it look better, and i swapped out the gross yellowing dustjacket, so it definitely looks like it's worth $200 now. i think the seller got it in an estate sale, and it had just sat on some chain smoking old fucker's shelf for the last 18 years. it smells pretty bad...

does anyone know any way to handle foxing- at least to keep it from spreading? and if there's a way to combat yellowing on those paper-covered boards? i now have two nice buk books (this and dangling) that have pretty noticeable yellowing at the top and bottom of the boards, and i'd appreciate any tips.

anyway, here are the pics. i can't tell you how honored i am to contribute a missing item to chronic's website... oh, and mjp, you need to scan pics of the first ed. for him too.

hwood1 - Copy.jpg hwood2 - Copy.jpg
 

jordan

lothario speedwagon
by the way, i know mold and mildew will spread, but if i put a book with foxing on the pages next to my other books, will that spread too? or does it tend to stay localized? how do you neutralize it?
 

ROC

It is what it is
Hiya Jordan

Have a read of this -
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/don/dt/dt1434.html

I don't believe foxing can spread from book to book.
I know of no way to completely clean those yellowing boards (as it is usually oils from the skin that has been absorbed by the paper) but you can try a pure white soft pencil eraser or 'gum' eraser. That's what I do to clean up odd marks on books.
I've even bought a near fine Buk book and cleaned it up into a fine - just by using the eraser.
 

mjp

Founding member
That sucks, man. I've been disappointed like that several times and it doesn't get any easier the more you get screwed.

On the plus side, I received the copy of Hollywood that you sent me today and I couldn't be happier, man. Thank you. I've never seen quite a packing job for a book (or such a clean copy)!

I know acid isn't the problem with your copy of the book, and Father Luke doesn't want you to spray anything on it, but I swear by this expensive shit: http://www.conservationresources.com/Main/section_29/section29_13.htm

I use it to to de-acidify the 1850's or later book paper I paint on. It claims to add 100 years to the life of the paper. I don't know that it would eliminate foxing, but it might stop it.

I dunno man, I feel kind of shitty taking your super clean copy and you getting kind of a dud for your efforts.

Hey, what is a "document cleaning pad"?

I won't forget the scan. Carol has a signed, numbered Pulp that I'm going to scan for Chronic too (it's on his list anyway, dunno if he still needs it). She also has one of the original drawings that Bukowski submitted for the Hollywood "serigraph" (not he one you pictured above, but a great one). The handwritten letter that came with the drawing says, "Hello John, I like the two guys fighting on camera, also the actress with the pink dogs. Best, Yr boy, Hank"
 

jordan

lothario speedwagon
mjp, don't worry about it... i'm happy with how it all shook down... i was able to clean this book up fairly nicely, and it does have the bonus of two signatures in it... i would have been super mad if the guy had ignored me, but like i said, he gave me back $150 of my money, and i definitely think i got a good deal at $200.

that other one is super clean, though, and the all-white is pretty cool too. the box i packed it in has some history behind it (did you notice the publisher's logo stamped on the styrofoam? that's bourgeois right there).

a document cleaning pad, aka, the best thing ever invented, is a little mesh bag filled with eraser crumbs. it was $7 at my local art supply store. it works like a magic rub eraser, except the soft fabric of the bag keeps you from abrading the surface you're working on. i went over this copy of hollywood for about 20 minutes (no joke) on each side, and it looks so much brighter now. there are still some faint foxing spots on the rear board, and the yellowing to the the top and bottom of the boards is still there, but it no longer looks, oh i don't know... sickly. in the scan, you can see a big smudge about 2/3 of the way down on the right-hand side, near the edge- that's completely gone now. the front is back to being fairly bright white (save for the aforementioned yellowing). honestly, i think i added $100 to the value of the book just by doing that and changing out the dustjacket with a pristine one i had on a different book. (given that it sells for $650 on abe in fine condition, i do think it's now worth the $350 i originally paid). then, i bought some book deodorizer granules, so i'll be able to get the cigarette smell out of it, and then it will be a nice, autographed copy of my 2nd favorite buk novel (now i just need the signed ham on rye!) this one just sat in a smoky room for a long time, and i needed to strip away some of that junk. i have a dehumidifier in my book room, and the articles i read online seemed to indicate that low humidity will stop foxing from spreading, and the binding will be tighter overall after it sits there for awhile (that's what happened to that really warped copy of dangling in the tournefortia that i bought... the page block is barely wavy now).

okay, i should stop now, but i just love talking about this cleaning pad so much. when i was done with hollywood, i went over to this copy of hot water music that's one of my favorite books, except for the smudge on the bottom of both sides that's always bugged me- wash your hands before you touch an expensive book! gone, vanished without a trace. then i did the same thing on this dave eggers book i have. same result. i'd sleep with it in my bed with me if it didn't smell like burnt rubber and leak eraser crumbs everywhere.
 

ROC

It is what it is
Ahhh, so the cleaning pad works on the soft eraser principle.
Makes sense.
I've never seen one here though.
Your joy at cleaning Hollywood and Hot Water Music reminds me of The Captain Is Out To Lunch that I got. It was sold 'cheap' ($900) because it was slightly soiled.

All the marks came off. It's as good as new... as they say.
 

chronic

old and in the way
I won't forget the scan. Carol has a signed, numbered Pulp that I'm going to scan for Chronic too (it's on his list anyway, dunno if he still needs it). She also has one of the original drawings that Bukowski submitted for the Hollywood "serigraph" (not he one you pictured above, but a great one). The handwritten letter that came with the drawing says, "Hello John, I like the two guys fighting on camera, also the actress with the pink dogs. Best, Yr boy, Hank"

Yep, still need it. Thanks. I will be looking forward to it.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
... wash your hands before you touch an expensive book! ...

Some of the libraries I've been doing research in lately have a schizo policy towards rare books. They make you wear white gloves (which makes sense) but are against any form of book repair or restoration because it changes the bibliographic nature of the book. I understand that, but in many cases the book is falling apart, the binding is broken, and handling it in that condition causes accelerated wear and tear to the pages. Careful and conservative restoration of the binding by experts would make the book structurally sound so that it could be handled with minimal damage, but they won't do it. I was handling a very rare book last week, and the spine was in terrible shape, about 1/4th gone. A big piece of leather just fell off as I was carefully looking at it. Soon the entire backstrip will be lost, and then there's no bibliographic information left to preserve. Makes me crazy... The research is for a secret literary project, so don't ask.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
I'm sworn to secrecy. My partner in this project isn't ready to go public yet, but eventurally word will come out. It's nothing to do with Bukowski. I'll let you all know when it's announced, and many of you will think "huh? Why is he into that?" All I can say is it's a subject that fascinates me deeply, and the research has been incredibly rewarding. More addictive than...I don't know what. Vanilla icecream.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
Bill knows. He's my confidante (spelling?) And he did, once, offer to do a bit of printing related to this covert operation. Remember Bill? A postcard? Does that offer still stand? I won't hold you to it.

Oddly (here's a clue) the subject of my secret literary researches once lived on De Longpre. So there's a slight connection that keeps this post almost on topic. I ought to Google Earth the two addresses and see how close they were to one another (although decades apart). Now go figure out who I'm studying, or do you have better ways to spend your time?
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
Thanks Bill.

The secrecy is because one of my partners in this venture worries that we'll be scooped if we announce it too early and someone else will bring out a similar publication before we do. I don't think there's much danger in that; the subject is popular, and has been over a long period, but far from hot. Rather in a decline due to a negative biography that was really little more than a hatchet job. Probably a good thing we are waiting or I might have said a whole bunch of dumb things based on my early research that later turned out to be untrue. With a loose cannon like me, waiting is always a wise bet.

And you will never guess, but I know a way you could figure it out with appropriate use of thechnology. No hints on that.
 
... I was handling a very rare book last week, and the spine was in terrible shape...

From that I'd guess it's a very old book. Maybe 19th century or even earlier?

Anyway, I can understand you to keep it secret until it's ready to be talked about. When I asked, I only made a joke. Just keep it - for this moment. And don't forget to tell us when silence-time is over!
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi,
I don't think that this book has anything to do with it. If David is like me (which he is, in some ways), he digs looking at really old books.

They call us book nerds. We call ourselves... errrr. errrrr.... We call ourselves book nerds too...

Bill
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
From that I'd guess it's a very old book. Maybe 19th century or even earlier?

Anyway, I can understand you to keep it secret until it's ready to be talked about. When I asked, I only made a joke. Just keep it - for this moment. And don't forget to tell us when silence-time is over!

It's a fairly old book, early 20th Century. The binding is leather because it was the deluxe version of a self-published work. There was also a cloth edition. All the leather copies I've seen (and they are as rare as hen's teeth with gold crowns) have disintegrating spines. Many old books have this problem -- it seems to be from having the inside of the spine (the side you never see) lined with acidic newsprint. Binders used old newspapers to line the back of the leather and it weakens the hinges and makes the spine fall off, apparently. That's my theory, anyway. The one cloth copy I have seen has a good spine, also lined with newsprint. From that I'm wondering if the cloth is less affected by the acid than the leather. BUT I DIGRESS TERRIBLY... I'll make an anouncement here when the project goes public and you'll likley say "Huh?" "Who?" "Jeez" and things like that.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
I don't think that this book has anything to do with it. If David is like me (which he is, in some ways), he digs looking at really old books.

They call us book nerds. We call ourselves... errrr. errrrr.... We call ourselves book nerds too...

I am very much like you, Bill. It's frightening how much alike we are (we're both frightened by it.) I spend a lot of time looking at and reading old books from before 1900, and have far too many of them, and love them to pieces. I enjoy repairing them when they fall apart. You can definitely call me a book nerd. Nothing smells more like pleasure to me than old paper, decaying bindings and the scent of mildew (it rains here a lot and many books get damp sooner or later.) There's nothing quite like going to a yard sale and finding a pile of books that have been sitting out in the rain. Black and brown mildew stains are common but when you find one with huge pink blossoms on the pages, then you have something special.
 

mjp

Founding member
All the leather copies I've seen (and they are as rare as hen's teeth with gold crowns) have disintegrating spines. Many old books have this problem -- it seems to be from having the inside of the spine (the side you never see) lined with acidic newsprint. Binders used old newspapers to line the back of the leather and it weakens the hinges and makes the spine fall off, apparently.
For post-1850 books that would be possible. That's when we started using wood pulp to make paper rather than rag, or cotton. I have a few books here form the 1700's that have (had?) an intact original binding - but you're right, it all depends on the materials.

Pre 1850 paper is much more durable and long lasting than post 1850 paper.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
mjp - you're right. Wood pulp is acidic. Rag paper is acid free and lasts forever practically. Another factor that weakened old leather bindings is the binder would shave the leather too thin, to make it "fine" (no thick edges where the leather stops) and that made the leather lose it's structural soundness. That may be the main reason old hinges split. A full thickness skin is much stronger.

I feel guilty getting this thread so OT. We're a long way from Hollywood.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
I heard that the Huntington has two copies of the Gutenberg Bible. I'm sure that everyone knows that this was the first book printed using movable type. Complete books (there are only 22 copies in the world) would sell for about $100 Million US Dollars.

Individual leaves sell for $100,000 and individual pages sell for thousands (depending on the quality and how much "Illumination" it has. You can see why a place like The Huntington will not allow unguarded access to a treasure like this.

Also, on a side note (and because I am a book nerd), I heard that these books were sold unbound. The buyer of the volume would have it bound by their bookbinder. They would also hire an artist to color in the letters and use gold foil, etc. The price of a volume when it was new (in the 15th Century was very, very expensive and only the very wealthy could afford them.)

Now, even the many of the wealthy cannot afford a copy...

Has anyone here ever held a copy? I have not.


Bill
 
oh, they have TWO of them at Huntington?? I only knew about one, which is cool enough.

Has anyone here ever held a copy?

of course I NEVER had one at present to touch (and it's so GOOD not to touch them!).
But there is a facsimile of the whole thing online!
I don't recall the URL by now, since it's years ago when I found it and don't have it in my present 'favorites' but will have a look at my old backups by request.
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
I've been to the Huntington and it is book nerd heaven. It was common in publishing up until maybe the early 1800s to publish books unbound, in paper wrappers, and the buyer would have the book custom bound in leather. Cloth bindings became a cheap alternative offered by some publishers, most of whom were booksellers. Not a bad business model. Maybe we should return to that. First editions of important books that have survived in their temporary wrappers, unbound, are rare and worth more than those that are in leather bindings. I've never held a Gutenburg Bible but I have handled illuminated medieval manuscripts and incunabula (early printed books before, I think, 1500)
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
I have a page of incunabula on my wall. Mine is from 1476 and printed by Nicholas Jenson in Venice and was the book of Natural History by Pliny the Elder. They are not very expensive and are ultra cool to frame and put in your print shop!

I have mine over my press.

Bill


Bill
 

Rekrab

Usually wrong.
Oh yeah? Well I have a page of manuscript on my wall, Italian (I think) about 1350 -- sheet music with Latin lyrics, probably from a church missal. It's next to a Kenneth Patchen art show poster from New Orleans, a Loujon Press print of a Bukowski poem about the French Quarter, signed by Gypsy Lou Webb, and a portrait of Jack London. All above my sofabed. Am I literary or what?
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
That is pretty cool. Yes, you are literary!

Is that ghost tour of your house still available? I would think that others would like to see it. Very interesting.

Bill
 

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