James Ellroy and Bruce Wagner on Bukowski (1 Viewer)

wow. He seems to know everything! I'm glad that he could enlighten us all.

It seems that this is his schtick...

Check out these quotes from him about himself (From Wikipedia):

"I'm the author of 16 books, masterpieces all; they precede all my future masterpieces."

"I am a master of fiction. I am also the greatest crime novelist who ever lived. I am to the crime novel in specific what Tolstoy is to the Russian novel and what Beethoven is to music."

Plus, he is a gun-loving, LAPD-loving conservative that blames the Rodney King beating on the liberal media and not the cops.

I guess in the end he'll do anything to keep his name in the media. This is only one small way to do that. Next he'll call Obama a racial slur in an attempt to sell a few more books.

Bill
 
It seems that anyone that the great and mighty ellroy dislikes, for any reason is labeled "a sack of shit". You would think that for suck a scary talented writer, he could think of a new phrase.

What a hack.

Bill
 
Look at the bright side - their heads are conveniently devoid of hair, so after their paranoid, impotent, white power wingnut ranting they can bust out the canola oil and easily slip their heads up each other's asses.

You can see the anticipation on their faces. "Jesus man, turn off hose cameras! I can't wait any longer to get my head way up this brilliant motherfucker's ass!"
 
"they will attempt to destroy anything
that differs from their own
not being able to create art
they will not understand art
they will consider their failure as creators
only as a failure of the world"
 
What pisses me off the most is not that these two douches is not that they don't like Bukowski. That is fine. Tell us why. What pisses me off is:

1) The smug condescending attitude from a pulp writer and a wanna-be pulp writer for a poet who had success.

2) Bruce Wagner's ass-licking of Ellroy. Maybe he thinks that if he gives him an extra special rim-job that he'll write a book that SOMEONE will buy or a screenplay that SOMEONE will make into a movie.

3) The fact that the alcoholoc, mysogonist Ellroy calls Buk an alcoholic mysogonist.

4) The fact that he seems to call anyone a "sack of shit" that he believes does not believe in his right-wing world view. Had Buk been an alcoholic mysogonistic right-winger, he would not have been a "sack-of-shit".

Bill
 
I don't think Ellroy knows shit about Bukowski. I don't think Ellroy's read anything but Joseph Wambaugh. He's just throwing out some comments in what was probably a long conversation with this talentless twat Wagner...you can tell this Wagner planned out all of his comments beforehand. He probably stayed up late, planning his big statement on L.A. culture and literature. Another phony. He's a small fart in the lower bowels of creation.
 
That's pretty sad, that two well established writers would be upset at the popularity of Bukowski. But when you think of it, it's understanding. Will anybody remember them fifteen years after their death? Well, they are aware of it.

Germans and 'angelinos' only?
 
I've heard of Ellroy's dislike for Bukowski. What can you do? Writers love to hate each other. Especially, successful writers. Ellroy is all about edifice, grand narrative, exposition, grand world views and corrupt vistas. Whereas Bukowski is all about the street, narrative simplicity, linearity, emotional directedness, minimalist description, reductionist critique, straight to the point bluntedness.

Thing is they both came from a similar world. But they both were driven to write about different sides of society. One about the corrupt working classes and lower street level society and those just above it or those seeking to be above it. While Ellroy wrote about psychotic murderers, corrupt policemen, serial killers, historical settings underlining vast corrupt landscapes.

I can imagine, Ellroy in his egocentric manner, would feel, why are all these readers loving Bukowski when he is sooo easy, he doesn't challenege the readers intelligence, when I spend months, if not years, burning over complex narratives and layering of plots and subplots.

The both have different cereberal intentions

Bukowski is by far the street poet. The poeta maledetto. He liked to play the fool yet had a real astute sensitivity to life and suffering. He was idiotic and rebellious yet very intelligent and cultured. They are both kind of idiots in a way; terrible at maths, niave, I think the real genius is better embodied in Bukowski. A man of apparent unremarkability being absolutely remarkable. As disgusting and draining as most human beings are, I'm sure, if we all pryed our lives open on the page with religious conviction, it might not be to hard for everyone to want to look inside.

p.s. just watched some james ellory clips of youtube. His 'hypsters' patter can be quite 'contrived' or just a wee bit 'twee' i.e. in one interview he keeps saying' you dig' and it just seems not quite his character; a bit put on. but hey. i suppose all writers are performers of sorts. Mind you, ellroy is quite the honesty monster, i respect a man who confronts his shadows, names it, and manages to endure it. much like buk.
 
So this morning I woke up and went into the kitchen, turned on the radio and started making coffee. NPR was on and Steve Inskeep was interviewing an author who had written a book about - from what I could gather coming in in the middle - a peeping Tom.

The guy was a real douchebag. Enough so that I thought, "Man I have to make sure to catch this guy's name, what a pretentious, self-absorbed twat!" It was, of course, James Ellroy.

Inskeep: Did you write this with a specific audience in mind?

Ellroy: I am writing for god, I am writing for people who are thrilled by history and all it's shifting momentousness, I write for Ludwig Van Beethoven the most unfathomable genius that civilization has ever created...

He was speaking in a drugged drag queen voice, drawing out syllables to emphasize their tremendous importance - he sounded like a perverted Southern bachelor uncle, sitting on the porch in an old, sweat stained white suit, drinking lemonade spiked with grain alcohol and saying inappropriately sexual things to the adolescent boys of the neighborhood.

There is an excerpt from the book on the NPR site, and I can't believe how shitty the writing is. Seriously.Don't take my word for it: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112977266

Carlos yukked and slapped the table. His wine glass capsized. Pepper chunks flew. Olive oil spritzed.
 
I am writing for god, I am writing for people who are thrilled by history and all it's shifting momentousness, I write for Ludwig Van Beethoven the most unfathomable genius that civilization has ever created...
I can't believe someone would talk like this. I read a little bit of Ellroy before and I didn't notice even a tiny bit of literature in it and I love the pulp fiction writers.

I'm guessing God and Ludwig are not impressed and as someone who is thrilled by history's shifting momentousness I don't like it either.
 
Firstly, no-one here can doubt my respect and admiration for Charles Bukowski!!!

But I like James Ellroy's writing. American Tabloid is an excellent book. I went to a reading of his in Melbourne and it was fantastic - this was quite a few years ago and maybe with the film adaptations of his books he has changed.

But when I met him he was very funny and entertaining.

He may be making outlandish comments to fire up publicity - although, of course, Buk is a "no go" zone!!
 
He may be making outlandish comments to fire up publicity - although, of course, Buk is a "no go" zone!!
He didn't mention Bukowski on NPR, and I didn't even know it was Ellroy until the peice ended. Just on his own, without any prejudice, he is a colossal douchebag.

And that excerpt from his latest book is laughable. If a first time author shopped that around it would be thrown into the trash bin of every publishing house in the country. And rightly so.
 
I think he's rather good, actually. I've only read a little of him myself, but he strikes me as a kind of avant-gardist who's managed to inject himself into the mainstream publishing bloodstream. The act is a bit jarring but everyone has their schtick. I think the dentures were a bad move, though, there's a slooshiness to his voice that wasn't there before.
 
Welcome Stouffer. You have some great products:

stouffers_collage_icecream.jpg
 
I think Stouffer is actually Harry Hill's blue rubber cat.



Sorted. Respect due.
 
I think I get easily offended when it comes to opinionated estimations of Bukowski as a person. I know it pisses me off when a writer such as Ellroy makes statements assuming Hank dead or alive is a kindred spirit. I can only hope James Ellroy is much like everyone else,he is his own worst enemy and could not hire a person to fuck up his life better than he will on his own. Douche bag.
 
Ellroy and Wagner are assholes for saying that. But somehow, I imagine if Bukowski were there to hear them say that, he would take a swig of beer, and smile as if that were a compliment. Just to piss them off.
 
Hi,

True. Buk would not care much. Maybe it is not that they hate Buk or hate his writing that rubs me so raw. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I agree that Buk is not for everyone. I think that it is their smug self importance that drives me crazy. Then there is the fact that Bruce Wagner is licking Ellroys asshole like the good lapdog that he is. Add to that the fact that James Ellroy is a hardcore right wing lunatic and the smug self importance makes perfect sense.

Bill
 
Just remember that Ellroy is the guy who writes stuff like this:

Carlos yukked and slapped the table. His wine glass capsized. Pepper chunks flew. Olive oil spritzed.

When you consider that, it's very, very easy to dismiss his opinion (and his writing) as unimportant.
 
True. Buk would not care much. Maybe it is not that they hate Buk or hate his writing that rubs me so raw. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I agree that Buk is not for everyone. I think that it is their smug self importance that drives me crazy. Then there is the fact that Bruce Wagner is licking Ellroys asshole like the good lapdog that he is. Add to that the fact that James Ellroy is a hardcore right wing lunatic and the smug self importance makes perfect sense.
Y'know after listening to that drek again, I get the feeling that they have a little jealousy seeping from their pores. As soon as Wagner said that stuff about Buk's apartment, Ellroy kinda looked like he was thinking "Gee, why isn't MY apartment a shrine?":D
 
I've read "The Black Dahlia" some time ago and was kind of bored. It was not as crappy as

Carlos yukked and slapped the table. His wine glass capsized. Pepper chunks flew. Olive oil spritzed.

... but seemed to me full of cliches and wankery. If not to say penistry. Those two very manly cops, being boxers and having this fight against each other, after that being partners and friends for life while the one wants to screw the others girlfriend and the other is still traumatized from his little kid sister being murdered while he should have really saved her etc etc.

I don't know. For a crime novel it's probably perfect. But I hate crime novels. Reading "The Black Dahlia" remembered me why.
 
I don't think Ellroy knows shit about Bukowski. I don't think Ellroy's read anything but Joseph Wambaugh. He's just throwing out some comments in what was probably a long conversation with this talentless twat Wagner...you can tell this Wagner planned out all of his comments beforehand. He probably stayed up late, planning his big statement on L.A. culture and literature. Another phony. He's a small fart in the lower bowels of creation.

Wow! I love this statement. But I gota admit that I have read Wambaugh a couple of times.
 
Haha, you found my youtube account from a few years ago....I didn't see that coming...much like that car the other week, my foot still hurts. It's just my attempt at making a youtube video. I had just gotten a webcam and I was ttrying it out, though, as the evidence proves, I didn't really succeded and gave up, not long after.


Writers often resent each other. It's all part of the play. Dividing people. Dividing readers. But, I will read Ellroy and Bukowski. I prefer Bukowski but I still love Ellroy.

Maybe ellroy is just gutted that, he spends months writing and studying history and so on, writing these Huge Edifices to the corrupt political landscape of america, then there is this, drunk man, who writes in a rather slapdash, lazy fashion...I can understand why he might think he is being overlooked for a homeless man. Personally, I'll have the frank accounts of Bukowski and be done with it. I'm not here to play tug of war with the mighty book shelvers of libraries.

p.s. I would read bukowski online. maybe one day. just one poem in particular. one day.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top