January 21st - Bukowski completes Post Office (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Ponder
- Start date
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Thank you Ponder, that is an event. Just consider John Martin's surprise.
Right.
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
No, it does'nt seem right. According to Unca Howie, Buk started writing Post Office on January 2 (page 103).
That corresponds with Neeli writing in his Buk bio, "On January 2, 1970 Hank quit his job at the post office." (page 223). On the next page (page 224) Neeli writes, "Hank plunged into writing Post Office the day after he quit his job...He completed the manuscript in less than three weeks." - So there's a discrepancy of one day between Unca Howie and Neeli as to when Buk started writing the novel, but he started writing it either on January 2, or January 3, it seems.
Just to complicate matters further, Miles says in his bio, that January 9 was Buk's last day at work, at the post office (page 176)! However, I have more faith in Unca Howie and Neeli, than I have in Miles.
That corresponds with Neeli writing in his Buk bio, "On January 2, 1970 Hank quit his job at the post office." (page 223). On the next page (page 224) Neeli writes, "Hank plunged into writing Post Office the day after he quit his job...He completed the manuscript in less than three weeks." - So there's a discrepancy of one day between Unca Howie and Neeli as to when Buk started writing the novel, but he started writing it either on January 2, or January 3, it seems.
Just to complicate matters further, Miles says in his bio, that January 9 was Buk's last day at work, at the post office (page 176)! However, I have more faith in Unca Howie and Neeli, than I have in Miles.
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mjp
Founding member
January 2nd and 9th were both Fridays in 1970, so either is a plausible last day at a job. It must be one of those.
But to further muddy the waters, he says in a January 1970 letter to Carl Weissner that the first ten days after quitting the post office he was just drinking and going to parties - "I damn near went out of my skull...I almost cracked."
If that letter is accurate, it sure doesn't sound like he started writing Post Office the day he quit. But going crazy for 10 days seems reasonable after all that time at the job, and considering the stress he was feeling without the safety net of the regular paycheck.
Whatever the quit date is, it would seem that the 1/21 finish date is almost certainly wrong.
But to further muddy the waters, he says in a January 1970 letter to Carl Weissner that the first ten days after quitting the post office he was just drinking and going to parties - "I damn near went out of my skull...I almost cracked."
If that letter is accurate, it sure doesn't sound like he started writing Post Office the day he quit. But going crazy for 10 days seems reasonable after all that time at the job, and considering the stress he was feeling without the safety net of the regular paycheck.
Whatever the quit date is, it would seem that the 1/21 finish date is almost certainly wrong.
Same here. I have no clue where I read it.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
January 22nd is a big day too.
This day 1966, John Martin meets Bukowski face to face for the first time and 1962 Jane Cooney dies. In the calendar.
All this info right at our finger tips.
This day 1966, John Martin meets Bukowski face to face for the first time and 1962 Jane Cooney dies. In the calendar.
All this info right at our finger tips.
Johannes
Founding member
That's true. I never realized that those two periods (10 day drinking bout after quitting/writing P.O. in 21 days) might collide. But they seem to, except his last workday would have been december 20th or something ... is that possible?
Another probably unrelated inconsistence: In "Locked in the Arms ..." (I believe, correct me, if I'm wrong) we read, that P.O. originally had 120,000 words, 30,000 pulled out on the re-reading from B. himself.
This probably comes from here:
"I have to write a lot of poems to keep from going crazy; I can't help it. I often write ten to 12 poems a day and then top the whole thing off with a short story. I may be going crazy but it has been all hell on production. I just hang on thop of this typer and scream it out. Wrote the novel in 20 days. 120,000 words, 30,000 of which I pulled out on the re-reading."
- Living On Luck, p. 109: Letter to Neeli Cherry, September 1, 1970,
Well, 120,000 - 30,000 that would leave 90,000 words, which always seemed way to much for me holding the book in hands. Doesn't it? I`d say, it's about the half. 45,000, maybe 50,000 words.
So, why 90,000? Or even 120,000? Were they really there? Were they thrown out? By whom?
Another probably unrelated inconsistence: In "Locked in the Arms ..." (I believe, correct me, if I'm wrong) we read, that P.O. originally had 120,000 words, 30,000 pulled out on the re-reading from B. himself.
This probably comes from here:
"I have to write a lot of poems to keep from going crazy; I can't help it. I often write ten to 12 poems a day and then top the whole thing off with a short story. I may be going crazy but it has been all hell on production. I just hang on thop of this typer and scream it out. Wrote the novel in 20 days. 120,000 words, 30,000 of which I pulled out on the re-reading."
- Living On Luck, p. 109: Letter to Neeli Cherry, September 1, 1970,
Well, 120,000 - 30,000 that would leave 90,000 words, which always seemed way to much for me holding the book in hands. Doesn't it? I`d say, it's about the half. 45,000, maybe 50,000 words.
So, why 90,000? Or even 120,000? Were they really there? Were they thrown out? By whom?
mjp
Founding member
5700 words a day is a lot to write for three weeks straight, I've always thought the 120,000 word number was high.
I don't know if 90,000 is too high for the published version of Post Office. Maybe there's a text version floating around out there that someone could get a word count on.
I don't know if 90,000 is too high for the published version of Post Office. Maybe there's a text version floating around out there that someone could get a word count on.
from 'Locked' p102f (Grove-Press, Hardcover, 1999):
"[...] When his friend Peter Edler invited him to read at The Bridge [...] Bukowski said yes. The date was set as Friday 19 December, 1969. [...] At the end of his final graveyard shift, a few days later, Bukowski wished everyone at the post office such a casual goodbye the clerks thought he was just going for the night. [...] He [...] got royally drunk. He stayed that way for several days, completely disorientated by the sudden rush of freedom. [...] on afternoon of 2 January, 1970, Bukowski sat down at his Royal typewriter and started his first novel [...]"
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Vacation days owed to him.
He quit at the busiest time of the year.
He quit at the busiest time of the year.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Just like many of the members here, writing while drunk. In his case writing very well.
mjp
Founding member
Perfect. I was hoping you would turn up something specific, and you did not disappoint.
This kind of makes the "21 days to write Post Office" story a myth though. A 10 day drunk (he seems pretty consistent with that 10 day claim, which makes it more likely to be true) would have put the start date at or around January 18th. The day after the letter to Dorbin would have been 21 days, and he says he's still not finished. Hard to say what his 133 pages of typescript translate to though, not knowing how many pages the finished manuscript is.
I need to take a break and go sniff a few bindings.
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
It would seem so. Nice find, cirerita!
Then Miles, after all, came closer when he wrote Buk quit working at Jan. 9.
So now the 10 day drunk (reminds me of the 10 year drunk) is down to a week. If he quit his job at Jan. 7, and was drunk for a week, then he must have started writing Post Office about Jan. 14 and at Feb. 6, about 23 days after having started, he was at page 133 (Post Office is 183 pages long, I believe). It certainly does'nt add up with the 20 or 21 days he said it took to write it.
Do we know at which date he finished Post Office, or called Martin saying so?
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chronic
old and in the way
It says a week and a half which is ten days, give or take a day.
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
Oh, you're right, chronic! My mistake! About 10 days it is then. So he started writing Post Office about Jan.18 and about 21 days later, at Feb. 6, he still had'nt finished it. So far so good. If only we knew when he finished it, or what day he called Martin saying so...
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Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
So it looks like he was still employed at Dec. 27, whether he was having his Christmas vacation or not. He certainly seems to have been drinking from about Christmas and till after New Year. The Jan. 7 date, was probably the day he formally ended his employment.
Thanks, cirerita...
Thanks, cirerita...
This is obviously the case here.
Too many contradicting dates given.
The pre-med-student he mentions comes in Post-Office AFTER he quit. But he IS THERE. It's all about the mixture of fact and fiction.
My guess is, that the "21-days" go back to something like the "one and a half week"-statement, which then became "10 days". Maybe he said something like "I've written that novel in (more or less) 3 weeks." which then ended up as ecactly 21-days in legend.
Also the mix of talking about being thrown out / forced to quit / leaving for his own good due to the 100.-deal - it isn't always consitent. But the picture as a whole looks right, I think.
ps:
in a letter to Weissner, dated mid-Nov 1969 he says: "[...] at the end of Nov. I am going to resign my job at the p.o. [...] so, after Dec. one, I will be on my own, and this typewriter will be a machine gun [...]"
('Screams', BSP, softcover, page 353)
mjp
Founding member
Ha ha - of course. I'm sure a couple more dates will turn up eventually.
I have a request in for his complete post office personnel records, so if I ever get those, maybe the real answer will be there. Same with his military records (including psychiatric evaluation? One can only hope), but the requests have been pending forever. A lot of those federal government records were being moved to a new storage facility when I requested them.
As to when he finished the manuscript, that might be a little more slippery to pin down (at least we know for sure that it's February now, and not late January). But it doesn't really matter. He wrote it quickly, that was the point.
I'm reading Post Office for the first time and I'm about 2/3 of the way into the book now.
Pretty good so far. It has a slightly less frantic feel to Factotum, which I probably prefer a little more at the moment but it still has that same readibility, humour and flow to it that makes it a pacey and enjoyable read. I don't know why but I have a feeling that I am gonna prefer this to Factotum eventually. Just a hunch. It has a certain quality and mood to it that I can imagine will prompt me to come back to it again and again.....arghh...I don't know what I'm rabbling on about!
Anyway the parts that have made me laugh the most include the section where Chinaski is looking after Joyce's pet birds....and also Chinaski's rant about ASSHOLES and how everthing has them (even trees!?) hahaha, I was fighting back the laughter as I was reading that on the train:D
Pretty good so far. It has a slightly less frantic feel to Factotum, which I probably prefer a little more at the moment but it still has that same readibility, humour and flow to it that makes it a pacey and enjoyable read. I don't know why but I have a feeling that I am gonna prefer this to Factotum eventually. Just a hunch. It has a certain quality and mood to it that I can imagine will prompt me to come back to it again and again.....arghh...I don't know what I'm rabbling on about!
Anyway the parts that have made me laugh the most include the section where Chinaski is looking after Joyce's pet birds....and also Chinaski's rant about ASSHOLES and how everthing has them (even trees!?) hahaha, I was fighting back the laughter as I was reading that on the train:D
What I like about 'Post Office' so much more than 'Factotum' is:
'FACTOTUM' is merely a lose combination of stories, many of them even used before as short-stories or columns. It's not a novel, it's just putting episodes together. Nothing against episodes or short-stories, but then, don't call it a novel, just because a novel sells better.
I feel he was loveless for that book, didn't feel the inner urge to write that.
While 'POST OFFICE' shows that urge all over.
Like 'Fac' it's funny as hell, but when it comes to the 'serious' parts it beats 'Fac' by miles.
plus it has plot and developement. Not that I'm one of those asses who absolutely need 'developement' in a story. 'Barfly' doesn't have it and I love it. But you get my point I guess ...
I know what you mean now. I should have waited till the end before I formed an opinion!
Anyway I finished Post Office on the train today and I must say the ending left me feeling quite empty. I don't mean that in a negative way though it's just I guess it makes the reality of life hit home which is you work and work and slog through all the crap, thinking your gonna suss it all out one day and find real happiness, but once you think you've got it you realize that eternal happiness doesn't exist....it's just something that constantly comes and goes at times when you'd least expect it...which is why you gotta savour it when you've got it. I'm speaking for myself here though, this is just what I felt at the end. I think Bukowski also summed this up beautifully in his poem. 'The Laughing Heart'
Something about the book already makes me wanna read it again already. Behind all the self-assured nihilistic attitudes, vague optimism and humour there is an underlying sadness to it which I don't remember feeling from in Factotum. But to be honest I need to re-read Factotum again. It was my first Buk book and I was reading while traveling around Europe for a month last year, so my memory isn't so vivid.
Anyway I finished Post Office on the train today and I must say the ending left me feeling quite empty. I don't mean that in a negative way though it's just I guess it makes the reality of life hit home which is you work and work and slog through all the crap, thinking your gonna suss it all out one day and find real happiness, but once you think you've got it you realize that eternal happiness doesn't exist....it's just something that constantly comes and goes at times when you'd least expect it...which is why you gotta savour it when you've got it. I'm speaking for myself here though, this is just what I felt at the end. I think Bukowski also summed this up beautifully in his poem. 'The Laughing Heart'
Something about the book already makes me wanna read it again already. Behind all the self-assured nihilistic attitudes, vague optimism and humour there is an underlying sadness to it which I don't remember feeling from in Factotum. But to be honest I need to re-read Factotum again. It was my first Buk book and I was reading while traveling around Europe for a month last year, so my memory isn't so vivid.
