John Edwards - is he worth it?

roni

Over 5000 posts
I'm not really into politics (anymore) and, like most Germans, I only have little understanding of US-politicians. On the other hand - we all know that the president of the US has tremendous effect worldwide, which should give us some reason to, at least, have a look at what's going on.

So I just came across the name John Edwards and I said to myself: "Wow, the bass-player of a rock group runs for president! Must be a Zappa-fan!" but then sure realized, it's another person.

But who is he? Is he worth it? Is he the man to replace Mr. G. "the world is my oyster" W. B.? or should I prefer one of the others?
Any information welcome.


p.s.:
Sure, I'm aware, he's just another 'Face of a Political Candidate on a Street Billboard' - but then: They all are. And I CAN'T stand the perfect fake smile of Mr. Obama. And that ex-president's wife? I ain't sure...
 

roni

Over 5000 posts
I'm just asking a question.
But I see the point - so: mjp, just delete that crap!
 

Short Bus

Over 1000 posts
Sorry Roni heck I had a complete treatise written then realised last time I offended people I respect but have never met-its not worth it-not on this list so I pressed delete.
and wrote the above.
That said You can google all the above and they will tell you how great they are.
 

Father Luke

Founding member
Over 1000 posts
Let's leave the thread.

It's in a non-Bukowski section, and an appropriate poast.
Just saying.

I might even have something to offer about the election myself later.
I feel the thread is totally appropriate.

We have a thread devoted to pot heads, what music we like, and
what we had for dinner.
 

roni

Over 5000 posts
That said You can google all the above and they will tell you how great they are.
sure I could google, but as you said: the pro-cons will tell how great, as well as the anti-cats will tell how evil one of the candidates is. That's why I asked here, were I 'know' people behind oppinions and can easier judge the worth of their evidence.

thanks father, for your support.
Still I fear it was a very very bad idea to start this.

(so, to avoid some political / ideological discussion: maybe we can agree to just collect facts?)
 

1fsh2fsh

I think that I think too much
Founding member
Over 500 posts
(so, to avoid some political / ideological discussion: maybe we can agree to just collect facts?)
politicians?....governments?...facts?....surley you must jest.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Over 5000 posts
John Edwards does not have much of a chance of getting the Nomination. It looks like there are two people on the Democratic side that will duke it out for the nomination. For those not following the US political scene it looks like this:

Democratic hopefuls:
Senator Hillary Clinton
Senator Barack Obama

Republican Hopefuls:
Governor Mike Huckabee
Governor Mitt Romney

They all have their own issues as far as electability. People are in general racist/mysogonist, sadly. Clinton is a woman and Obama is black. Huckabee is an evangelical baptist minister and Romney is a Mormon.

Being a Democrat, I'd vote gladly for either a woman or a black man. Although I think that many people fall back on their fears and will not.

It is a strange election. We'll either have our first Black president, our first woman president, our first Mormon president or our first retired Minister as president.

Unless I'm missing a presidential hopeful?

Bill

p.s. Sorry for the political discussion, but I think that I gave some info for those outside the US and did not taint it too much with my left-wing leanings!
 

jordan

lothario speedwagon
Over 1000 posts
I like John Edwards. He has a lot of flaws in my opinion, but I like his overarching narrative about economic equality. I think after 8 years of Bush essentially saying "fuck the poor" and neglecting the economy outright, this country would be a better place if someone pointed out that, regardless of terrorism, iraq, brown people, or other threats, life sucks for a whole lot of people, and won't get better just because we're using drowning torture against people.
 

mjp

Your Host
Moderator
Founding member
Over 5000 posts
It is a strange election. We'll either have our first Black president, our first woman president, our first Mormon president or our first retired Minister as president.
A lot can happen between the primaries and the nominations. But as with most political choices, it will come down to the lesser of two evils.








And the lesser evil will lose. ;)
 

jordan

lothario speedwagon
Over 1000 posts
it's really not true that all american candidates are the same. yes, they all have flaws, but was it really such a coin flip between bush and gore? do you really think the world would only be slightly different if we just had 8 years of gore?
 

number6horse

okyoutwopixiesoutyougo
Over 1000 posts
Bill, I'd say you have summarized the choices pretty succinctly. At least on the surface. But I have to ask - Is Huckabee really a retired minister ? I knew he was a born-again Christian, but was he at one time an actual "man-of-the-cloth" ?

If so - forget him. Church and State have become too close already, for my tastes.

Re: John Edwards
I don't want our next president to come into the job with the kind of personal crisis he is enduring right now (his wife has cancer). I want to see him be a 100% supportive spouse who can be present when she needs him. For Crissakes - that's the kind of leadership example I would remember in 2012. I mean, Curt Schilling for Vice-President - right ?

it's really not true that all american candidates are the same. yes, they all have flaws, but was it really such a coin flip between bush and gore? do you really think the world would only be slightly different if we just had 8 years of gore?
Fuck no. We would be in a different moral universe if Gore had won.
 

chronic

old and in the way
Over 1000 posts
John Edwards is okay. Of the three "viable" democratic candidates right now he would be my choice, mainly because of his health plan and populist ideology.

In the primary I will probably vote for Kucinich since he's the only candidate who seems to share my values, but the likelihood of his winning the nomination is slim-to-none.

If Gore steps into the race (there's still time Al... are you listening?) I would vote for him in a heartbeat. I really think he would be reelected.

Hillary Clinton: Same Shit, Different Gender. She's an old school bought-and-paid-for political hack.

Barack Obama: Something about the guy creeps me out. He reminds me of a well preserved corpse. Aside from that, he's far too willing to bend his principles to suit whatever he thinks is the popular stand of the moment and, as a result, doesn't seem to stand for much of anything.

As for the bad guys, Mike Huckabee doesn't believe in evolution. He seems like a nice enough guy, but he is apparently stupid. Mitt Romney also doesn't believe in evolution. That makes him stupid + he's a lying hypocritical fuckwad of the highest order. Rudy Giuliani is like Nosferatu in drag. Fred Thompson... ugh... he makes my stomach hurt. Ron Paul, although I think he's principled and probably honest, and I do agree with him on some points, seems like a crazy person with rabies. He's really kind of spooky that way. John McCain lost all of his credibility when he bent over a little further for Bush, Rove & Co to slam it in deeper. Anyone with character would not have quietly taken the personal slurs against his wife and family that he did.

The main problem with the repugnantcans is that every goddamned single one of them are for continuing on and/or expanding the disastrous course that our current parasite-in-chief has set the country on.

Anyway, whoever the democratic nominee is, I will hold my nose and cast my vote for them. Not that my vote counts, or that Jr. will actually leave office when the time comes, but voting gives me the right to complain bitterly about whoever is fucking everything up on any given day.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Over 5000 posts
Bill, I'd say you have summarized the choices pretty succinctly. At least on the surface. But I have to ask - Is Huckabee really a retired minister ? I knew he was a born-again Christian, but was he at one time an actual "man-of-the-cloth" ?

If so - forget him. Church and State have become too close already, for my tastes.

From Mike Huckabee's very own website:

"A significant part of his adult life was spent as a pastor and denominational leader. He became the youngest president ever of the Arkansas Baptist State Convention, the largest denomination in Arkansas."

Bill

p.s. and yes, it is true, he does not believe in Evolution...

Barack Obama: Something about the guy creeps me out. He reminds me of a well preserved corpse.
Very Funny, but VERY true...

Bill
 

jordan

lothario speedwagon
Over 1000 posts
huckabee is bad, but at least he has a sense of humor- his jokes are well scripted and politically planned, but i'm grasping at straws here, because i think romney is horrible in every way. he would be worse than bush... he'd be like having cheney as the president.
 

roni

Over 5000 posts
Thanks all!
Helped a lot! (And was also funny to read.)

Haven't heared about this Kucinich-guy before, just looked him up. Seems a good guy.
 

ROC

It is what it is
Over 1000 posts
Not that my vote counts, or that Jr. will actually leave office when the time comes, but voting gives me the right to complain bitterly about whoever is fucking everything up on any given day.
Exactly... Hence 'America flips a coin'.

A lot of people did vote for Gore... doesn't mean a fucking thing in the US of A.

I know it's a little early, but chronic gets my nomination for poast of the year '08 for the above lucid rant
Fuck it - 2 nominations... I'm voting twice.
 

mjp

Your Host
Moderator
Founding member
Over 5000 posts
it's really not true that all american candidates are the same. yes, they all have flaws, but was it really such a coin flip between bush and gore? do you really think the world would only be slightly different if we just had 8 years of gore?
Yes, in the long run I think the world would be only slightly different - actually I believe it would be imperceptibly different - no matter who is president at any given time.

The middle east would still be a tightly wound ball of religious ignorance waiting to explode all over us, popular entertainment would still be created for and aimed at morons (because some six year olds saw Janet Jackson's nipple on TV, don't you know - and yes, I consume much of that popular entertainment on my REALLY BIG TV), and millions of people would line up to watch parades and shop for Christmas presents.

A decade of Democrats, a decade of republicans, back and forth forever and ever, and the politicians and the lawyers and the lawmakers pocket a third of your puny wage and laugh and laugh that we are stupid enough to actually endorse their thievery with our voluntary votes.

One or two "good" politicians are like a few grains of sugar in a pile of dog shit. They don't make the shit sweet, they get swallowed up in the stench. None of this will change until our entire political system changes, and that ain't happening during our lives.

When I was younger I used to read Mark Twain books and laugh at how he described the 19th century politicians' unapologetic, bold faced larceny. Eventually it dawned on me (I'm not real quick to pick up on things) that not only has nothing changed, but things are actually worse. When I was younger I also thought I could change all that with my vote. I told you I wasn't too bright.

Do I prefer Republicans to be at the helm? No. But that's just for my comfort and personal delusion. My perception is that things are better when the president is a Democrat, but I think objective reality disproves that.

Now I have to go to work and make some money so I can continue paying the IRS the thousands of dollars that I have owed them since 2000. Yay America!
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
Over 5000 posts
Thank you Roni, this has turned out to be a good thread. Everyone is right where I thought they would be.
John Edwards got his millions as a personal injury attorney, therefore his personal crisis isn't going to distract him a bit. Sorry about his wife.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Over 5000 posts
p.s. Sorry for the political discussion, but I think that I gave some info for those outside the US and did not taint it too much with my left-wing leanings!
You did! - And as long as you don't taint it with right-wing leanings everything's fine! :p
 
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bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Over 5000 posts
noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.............
 
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number6horse

okyoutwopixiesoutyougo
Over 1000 posts
Yes, in the long run I think the world would be only slightly different - actually I believe it would be imperceptibly different...
I won't argue that Middle-East tensions, mindless entertainment, and crass consumerism would have been reduced - much less eliminated - by a Gore presidency, but I will go to my grave believing that Gore (or most anybody else) would have been smart enough to stay the hell out of Iraq after 9-11. This is how I measure the legacy of G.W. Bush vs. what-could-have-been : Iraq. Iraq. Iraq.

Bush and his advisors were either incompetent enough to believe spotty and questionable evidence of a WMD program, or evil enough to cook up that evidence themselves as a pretext to invade Iraq and set up a U.S. military base for further operations in that region.

For the record, I am not a pacifist and I recognize the need for retaliation when the U.S. is attacked. I fully supported the Afghanistan operation to eliminate the Al-Qaeda training camps and evict the Taliban, who alowed those psychos to operate there. (Yeah, I know they used to be The Mujahadeen and they sent the Soviets packing thanks to our help, but don't interrupt me ! :) ) Anyway, my basic opinion is that Gore would have most assuredly retaliated against Afghanistan and - once Bin-Laden and company had run off to the NW provinces of Pakistan - would have turned up the heat on Musharraf to either turn them over, or get the fuck out of the way while we go get him ourselves. Now, I know that an operation like that would have been extremely difficult and fraught with problems and set-backs, too. Plus, Bin-Laden is merely the public face of an unknown quantity. But at least we would have been pursuing the actual people who killed close to 3000 American citizens. I hate to reduce it to mere numbers, but it just devastates me to think that we have sacrificed more U.S. lives in Iraq than we lost on September 11, 2001. God knows where it all ends.......

Whew ! - to everyone still reading this, thank you for indulging me. I didn't mean to drop a fucking Tolstoy on you, and by all means mjp, this is not a diatribe directed at you personally. We all have opinions and I am grateful for the free exchange granted by this forum. Nothing wrong with strong feelings, as long as we don't engage in personal attacks, right ?

Tonight was the Iowa caucus and I guess the safety was off on my political shotgun !
 
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