Justin Hyde ... (1 Viewer)

[jmoshea]

I would be interested to hear what people here at bukowski.net have to say about this:

http://www.outsiderwriters.org/content/view/690/1/

Especially those who have read his work.

 

[hank solo]

Whether or not Justin Hyde is the next Bukowski, well, I don't know. Maybe he's the next Marc*s J*hns*n. Oh I hope not. I see this book was published by the above site as the winner of their Jack Micheline Memorial contest. And the reviewer is also a member of The Guild of Outsider Writers. Of course, that doesn't mean anything.

But I think the reviewer dismisses Bukowski's work too easily. Maybe he doesn't like Bukowski, thinks he's over-rated or maybe he's just really enthusiastic about this new book by the other fellow. I see on his own website (the reviewer Paul Corman-Roberts) has a blurb from Neeli Cherkovski. How nice.

 

[jmoshea]

dare I ask who "Marc*s J*hns*n" is?

 

[hank solo]

I wouldn't suggest you do no. :D

 

[HarryC13]

Thanks for sharing. I have mixed feelings. This Justin Hyde fellow writes well enough, from the samples in the review. Not enough there to compare him to Buk one way or another, but I'm interested enough to look for more. And hank solo is right, the reviewer is too dismissive of Bukowski. I don't know where he got something about Buk "claiming to affect the ignorance of the commoner" -- I just think he's off base with that comment. And Hyde's verses:

but sometimes like bukowski
you talk out of your asshole

As we on this site know, Bukowski freely admitted any number of times that he "talked out of his asshole" and in fact was an asshole. Sometimes I think it comes with the territory of being a writer.

What Corman-Roberts doesn't get that Bukowski is a damned good writer, not just some cultural icon. Those of us who read him 30+ years ago couldn't read him because he was famous, because he wasn't. But word of mouth gets around, and his reputation grew. He was good, he didn't bullshit, and he wrote with honesty.

Anyone who has edited in the small press knows that you see a lot of crap. It's been too long to remember how much crap Buk sent me, but I'm sure I rejected more of his work than I accepted. (It's a very weird feeling, 23 years later, to think about that.) I'm sure Justin Hyde writes his share of bad stuff too. Anyone who writes does.

Fortunately, we are in a position to sit here and see what happens. Personally, I think Justin Hyde and Bukowski and W.S. Merwin and who knows how many more poets can exist in the same pantheon.

 

[Father Luke]

This is the dilemma RC Edrington wrote about.

Bukowski will always be the measure, you know?

 

[jmoshea]

I have been reading Hyde's work for some time now. He is definitely one of the better, more consistently interesting poets in the small press. Too bad everyone has to be compared to Buk...definitely unfair in my opinion...though in this review he is compared very favorably.

I would say we would need to wait and see what Justin or any new poet does over a ten or more year span before we compare them to Buk.

As for talking out of their ass...every poet does it...some more often than others.

 

[mjp]

The problem is people continue to look for the "next Bukowski," which is kind of like looking for the next Beatles. Don't hold your breath. The middle part of the 20th century was a time of major change and re-creation for all of the arts, and it is not a period that we will likely see again for a long, long time.

Anyway, looking for the "next Bukowski" implies trying to replace him, and that's a pointless effort. The next Bukowski will not write the way Bukowski did, or the way Justin Hyde does. The next Bukowski will not fit in to the current accepted literary standards. Most of us will not enjoy - or be tolerant of - his or her work. It will certainly not read like anything around today.

And the author will not bother trying to build their own personal Bukowski-lite myth, the way that so many imitators do. They will create something new, and that's what will make them the next Bukowski.

 

[Short Bus]

When the F did Nietzche say know the common man-he hated the common man called them flies in the marketplace.

Next....

 

[jmoshea]

The next Bukowski will not fit in to the current accepted literary standards. Most of us will not enjoy - or be tolerant of - his or her work. It will certainly not read like anything around today.

And the author will not bother trying to build their own personal Bukowski-lite myth, the way that so many imitators do. They will create something new, and that's what will make them the next Bukowski.

Yes, yes and yes.

 

[HarryC13]

I like the way you think, Michael. The forces that shaped Bukowski -- personal, literary and global -- are an unlikely combination. I mean, back in the 70s and early 80s a lot of us tried to live that hard-drinking Bohemian lifestyle, but hey -- I didn't live on the streets or in little rooms. Or hemmorhage and go right back to drinking. Bukowski lived an odd life, and that and his talent gave us the anomaly that he is.

And good point, Jimmy Snerp, since when was Nietzsche a lover of the common man?

 

[chicagoburgers]

The problem is...

just had to say that the above quote, and Father Luke's below are 2 of the most 'right on' Buk assessments I've ever read.
Well done and well said.
---
03-20-2008, 10:10 AM #6
Father Luke

"What strikes me is that Bukowski broke open
everything he knew about what poetry was, and
made it his own. He made poetry something he
wanted to read.

Bukowski was an innovator. He knew his field, and
he stepped up, and walked to the front of the line with a:

Here I am. I will be counted among you fuckers.

Not many have that. Not many have the ability to
transcend their history. He had that. He knew his
history. He knew who those fuckers were. He'd
read them, he'd studied them.

And, eventually, he knew himself as among them.
History has given him a place, I believe, for his innovation,
and his clear voice. It came with quite a price. "

 

[Gerard K H Love]

It's great to get excited and enjoy things, but sometimes we ruin it by comparing it to other things. I over analyze stuff all the time. I need to just do it and enjoy. I know I liked the couple of verses in that blog and I laughed out loud at what Hank solo wrote.

I learned something and I can relate to most of the thread. Justin Hyde has his whole life in front of him to be a great artist just being "the" Justin Hyde and we spelled his name right.

 

[weary.tune]

The problem is...

You nailed it, mjp. I couldn't agree more.

-wt

 

[cirerita]

Bukowski was liked -and quite a lot by academics and underground figures- in the very early days (late 50's / early 60's)...

We all know there will be no next Bukowski.

It's All One Poem.

 

[PaulFowler]

Its the nature of mainstream and avant garde art. Bukowski was part of the avant garde and eventually (and necessarily) became assimilated into mainstream art. His poetry starts out as a comment on the mainstream, but eventually becomes part of the mainstream. For a poet to become the "next Bukowski" then, they must too break down those poetics that dominate mainstream poetry; that is to say, the stylistic tendencies of Bukowski that appear to dominate much of the poetry of today. So, the "new Bukowski" must work with Bukowski in order to understand the modes of poetics that need breaking down and exposing, just as Bukowski worked with and against the modernists.

The next Bukowski will not look, smell or feel like Bukowski but he/she will certainly taste like him. Or something like that, I'm pretty tired but you should get what I mean.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

You should get an "A" for this. I am marking that down.

The next Bukowski will not look, smell or feel like Bukowski but he/she will certainly taste like him. Or something like that, I'm pretty tired but you should get what I mean.

Thank you but I'm not gonna taste anyone just yet.;)

 

[HarryC13]

Yes, but you have to admit, The Tasty Bukowskis would be a hell of a name for a rock band ...

 

[Gerard K H Love]

LOL!
The blues. The Tasted Bukowskis.

 

[Father Luke]

The blues.

Remember this...

 

[roni]

agreed mjp and the all of you.


jmosh:
maybe i had better let dead bodies rotten in piece, but - https://bukowskiforum.com/showthread.php?p=32869&highlight=Marcos#post32869
(he once was a very popular member here, as you might guess :-))

 

[jmoshea]

thanks for the info, roni.

 

[vodka]

i agree with cirerita. there just can't be a next bukowski. it's sort of like asking who will be the next jesus.

each poet can only be the next themselves.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Remember this...

Once again Father Luke digs up the jewels of the internet-thanx.

One of the comments on there from tubetasticshat-or whatever?

"that was frickin tits;nice and round;just rite " ;)

 

[roni]

We all know there will be no next Bukowski.

true.
and who would want any 'next Bukowski'? i think we're fine with the one we have.

(thinking back to the mid 70s, when the US-music-industry was so much looking for 'the next Bob Dylan' - and two of their official 'candidates' turned out to be too unique to fullfill their needs. i'm talking about one Tom and one Bruce of course.)

 

[mjp]

(thinking back to the mid 70s, when the US-music-industry was so much looking for 'the next Bob Dylan' - and two of their official 'candidates' turned out to be too unique to fullfill their needs. i'm talking about one Tom and one Bruce of course.)

Tom Cruise and Bruce Willis? ;)

Lester Bangs called Bruce Springsteen, "The rich man's Bob Seeger," which always made me laugh (and is pretty close to the truth -- like all well done humor).

 

[the only good poet]

"what am i doing? i ask -
and put down the book
having read but a few
lines
offering little
alternative..."

 

[Short Bus]

Yes the next Bob
I remember Steve Forbet neing pegged as the next Bob Dylan and a guy named mouse http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=238997355
You have to hear it to believe it.

MY friends and I have have a rule that if we hear Bob Seeger in a bar we have to down the drink and leave-You can only hear take those old records off the shelf while wearing acid wash jeans so many times.

 

[1fsh2fsh]

MY friends and I have have a rule that if we hear Bob Seeger in a bar we have to down the drink and leave-

Hey, I think that I will make that my rule too! Seegar played at a couple of my Jr. High school dances,(yep, really) probably '64,or '65. man thats too long to be listening to anybody...

 

[Purple Stickpin]

Bob Seeger and Bruce Springsteen. So many fuckers worshiped them in High School. I always referred to them as the BS brothers. If you want to reside in High School for the rest of your life, you've found your niche. I swear that Bruce is still 17, and his music clearly states it. How many times can you write a song about banging a girl in the back seat of your parent's car, or wanting to to bang a girl in the back seat of your parent's car? God, he's as annoying as a dung-drop that doesn't quite want to happen.

Just add a black saxophone player and it's cool, right?:rolleyes:

 

[Benwa]

You shouldn't compare someone to bukowski because he is dead. This guy still seems to be alive.

Maybe I"m dumb but I can't tell you why I like buk. I can't tell you what makes good poetry except it makes me feel something. Something I've felt before or something different. I try to write but I just end up writing. I don't know where to put a break, or a new line, or some fun format thing. I just do it where it makes sense to me. Is that good poetry? I don't know. I fiddle around and make something I like. Its always like a secret code where I am the only one who gets it. I read the boards here and I feel kind of stupid because I have no idea what makes something good or bad or buk so great or some other guy suck or anything like that. on the rare occasions I write i do it for me.

It's unfair to this guy to call him the next bukowski. He is the first, whatever the fuck his name is.

 

[PaulFowler]

Bob Seeger and Bruce Springsteen. So many fuckers worshiped them in High School. I always referred to them as the BS brothers. If you want to reside in High School for the rest of your life, you've found your niche. I swear that Bruce is still 17, and his music clearly states it. How many times can you write a song about banging a girl in the back seat of your parent's car, or wanting to to bang a girl in the back seat of your parent's car? God, he's as annoying as a dung-drop that doesn't quite want to happen.

Just add a black saxophone player and it's cool, right?:rolleyes:

I think you miiiiiiight be guilty of having quite a reductive view of Bruce Springsteen... His output is actually pretty varied musically and, to a lesser extent, lyrically.

 

[roni]

... His output is actually pretty varied musically and, to a lesser extent, lyrically.

i do like his early lyrics.
and an album like 'Darkness on the Edge of Town' is classic!
(and there's nothing about fucking in the backseat in it - it's more about being fucked by life.)

 

[Rekrab]

Not having read Justin Hyde (he may be great) or even the other posts in this thread (I'm in a hurry), I can say there is no new Bukowski. Ever. That happens once in this universe. It happened. There's more coming, but it's not going to be the new Buk. It'll be something else. And it probably won't be as good as Bukowski was.

 

[davidblaine]

Clarification

OK, I don't know why previous replies here haven't posted, but I'm giving it one last try.

First off, I'm David Blaine. I'm the member at The Guild of Outsider Writers who thought of having the Micheline Memorial contest.

Paul Corman-Roberts is a member of our group, but he didn't join us until after the contest was over. In fact, Paul withdrew his entry to the contest when he decided to join us, just so there would be no conflict of interest.

We try to run a straight ship. We didn't charge any entry or reading fees for our contest. The judge, Todd Moore, isn't a member. Neither are SA Griffin, who wrote the introduction, or AD Winans, who wrote the afterward.

In the review of Justin's book at our website, Paul said that it was unfair to compare Justin to Buk. OK? He said he was going to do it anyway, because others were going to if he didn't.

So I really don't see that he said anything wrong, anything disrespectful to either Justin or Buk. Can you disagree with him? Do you think if he hadn't made what he claimed was "an unfair comparison" that no one else would have brought it up?

Buk is a benchmark for anyone who writes this type of poetry. It's like when you go overseas and people want to know how much gas costs in Italy. They don't want to know how many Euros, they want to know how many US Dollars. Because that's the benchmark here. The fact that you couldn't buy any gas in Italy with US Dollars is irrelevant.

OK, maybe that comparison doesn't help explain my point, but I don't claim to be a world class poet or writer!!!

Take care, nice visiting here and this looks like a great website.

BTW, if anyone would like to read Justin's book, it's only six dollars post paid
and you can order it from our website, www.outsiderwriters.org.

 

[bospress.net]

In the review of Justin's book at our website, Paul said that it was unfair to compare Justin to Buk. OK? He said he was going to do it anyway, because others were going to if he didn't.

I thought that it was odd to say that it was unfair to compare Hyde to Buk and then (i believe) he mentioned Buk (as Sir Charles, Hank, Buk, Chinaski) more times than Hyde. I guess that I did not really get the review. I have no problems comparing anyone to anyone, but I just find it a bit easy. Kinda like saying a band sounds like Group A meets Group B. It does not do that band justice as maybe their sound is their sound and the marriage of the groups is in the eye of the reviewer.

Truth is that I would not buy a book by anyone specifically because someone compared them to someone that I liked.

As a rule, I don't like writers who write like Buk. I like Buk and I like writers who write like themselves.

And saying that anyone is better than anyone else when it comes to art is like saying that blue is a better color that red.

Bill

 

[mjp]

In the review of Justin's book at our website, Paul said that it was unfair to compare Justin to Buk. OK? He said he was going to do it anyway, because others were going to if he didn't.

So I really don't see that he said anything wrong, anything disrespectful to either Justin or Buk. Can you disagree with him? Do you think if he hadn't made what he claimed was "an unfair comparison" that no one else would have brought it up?

This is so defensive that I thought I missed something in the thread here. Someone ripping into the publisher, reviewer or their mothers. But all I see is people discussing the uselessness of the "next Bukowski" tag. The review was just a jumping off point. Nothing more.

The reviewer comments on his own review, "Well, boy I sure pissed a lot of folks off with the Buk comparison..." You did? I can't find any pissed off comments anywhere. But maybe I'm not trying hard enough.

I think these guys were expecting some sort of worldwide outcry and wave of animosity to wash over them on account of this wild, iconoclastic review, so they are clutching at a few tiny straws here and there. Their protestation and defensiveness is way out of proportion to the couple minor grumbles that were heard.

Well, controversy breeds sales, boys! Keep trying!

Though I have to admit, I don't know what an "outsider" writer is. Not when I read them on a web site, anyway.

Just sayin'.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

As a rule, I don't like writers who write like Buk. I like Buk and I like writers who write like themselves.
And saying that anyone is better than anyone else when it comes to art is like saying that blue is a better color that red.

I agree with Bill. I like blue more than red, but that's just my opinion today. The other day I preferred red.

 

[bospress.net]

purple is nice too....

But only sometimes.

Bill

 

[Rekrab]

Bill, I have to disagree with you on this one. Purple is always nice. Red too. Blue is usually good. Green is very seldom okay. Usually it's just plain wrong. Yellow always works. Brown is soild. Gray is safe as hell. White is perfect, unless it's dirty. Then it's embarassing.