Let's have some informed and insightful whathaveyou... (1 Viewer)

Alright. I've been wondering about the Buk poetry collections between '79-'81 for a while, and, hell, I want some informed/insightful whathaveyou on this topic.

(Full Disclosure: I have been researching a documentary on Bukowski '55-'65. This thread and the answers it might generate have nothing to do this or any other project, living or dead.)

Ok: '79 is PTPDLAPIUTFBTBAB. Pretty hard argue with the quality of the work, though some of it is either recycled or seems to be piggybacking/exhausting what is left of the LIADFH material. Why the title, though? Am I alone in hating the fact that hidden behind this ridiculous title is an above *average* collection of Buk's poetry? (I mean, along with classics such as Fire Station, the contemporary stuff from this collection is precise and excellent as far as tone is concerned. [Yes, I said tone. It seems the best abstract term to describe what Buk had going on in this period, whether in Women, LIADFH, or PTPDLAPIUTFBTBAB.])

Then: '81. DITT. Title is good, and much better than PTPDLAPIUTFBTBAB. DITT seems to be transitional work that is moody, visual, and reflective. Hints at the coming of Ham on Rye. So: why am I the only one who thinks this might be a (or the) totally overlooked collection? Why hasn't it gotten any significant recognition/attention? Am I totally in the wrong as my readings are concerned?
why am I the only one who thinks this might be a (or the) totally overlooked collection?
You aren't.

I don't know about the rest of your questions, since I was too distracted by the way you typed the titles to really take in any points you were trying to make.
confusing? i think that PTPDLAPIUTFBTBAB might just be the superior title. but that's just me.

ok: for the sake of rigor and mjp (btw: thanks for the thread correction):
PTPDLAPIUTFBTBAB=Play the Piano Drunk Like a Percussion Instrument Until the Fingers Begin to Bleed a Bit
DITT=Dangling in the Tournefortia

anyway, it's good to know you and I agree on that point... it's just that both the people i've polled and the polls found on this site don't reflect the same opinion.

so, again, any thoughts, anyone?
funny, i've always found 'play the piano drunk' to be the weakest collection by far - although i haven't read 'roominghouse' in a while. i thought a lot of the work in it was gimmicky or derivative, almost like one of buk's contemporaries wrote it trying to sound like buk himself. there are some gems in there for sure, but it's definitely not as strong as 'love is a dog from hell' or 'dangling' - and the short length is curious as well, since it feels padded as is, where most of his longer collections do not.
PTPDLAPIUTFBTBAB=Play the Piano Drunk Like a Percussion Instrument Until the Fingers Begin to Bleed a Bit
DITT=Dangling in the Tournefortia
Right. I know what they meant. The point was the acronyms are distracting and they take away from whatever point you're trying to make.

Just trying to help. That's what I do around here, spread happiness.
In regard to Jordan's reference to "Roominghouse." Great name, great cover (in my opinion), but total B-sides. I posted an eBay association copy to Neeli a while back, and Buk pretty much said as much with his inscription...


I think Bukowski may have written that to Neeli because Neeli maintained that the early poems were better. I see it more as Bukowski disagreeing with Neeli than putting down the poems in the book. But I guess one is the same as the other.
Ok: so far, this thread has not gone according to plan. Yes, the acronyms were confusing and silly. And, apparently, I'm not alone in thinking that "Dangling In The Tournefortia" is underrated. But, hell, it's things like the stuff below that make me think my opinion isn't too far off the mark.

  1. Love Is A Dog From Hell (945 votes: 28.8%)
  2. The Last Night Of The Earth Poems (347 votes: 10.6%)
  3. The Days Run Away Like Wild Horses Over The Hills (318 votes: 9.7%)
  4. Burning In Water Drowning In Flame (309 votes: 9.4%)
  5. Play The Piano Drunk Like A Percussion Instrument Until The Fingers Begin To Bleed A Bit (296 votes: 9%)
  6. You Get So Alone At Times That It Just Makes Sense (275 votes: 8.4%)
  7. Mockingbird Wish Me Luck (224 votes: 6.8%)
  8. War All The Time (215 votes: 6.6%)
  9. Septuagenarian Stew (158 votes: 4.8%)
  10. The Roominghouse Madrigals (113 votes: 3.4%)
  11. Dangling In The Tournefortia (80 votes: 2.4%)

This survey is from Bukowski.net's own book ranking section. The rankings put "Play the Piano..." in the top 5, implying that ~1 out of 10 readers voted it #1.* ~1 out of 40 said the same for "Dangling...," which I think is a damn shame. I mean, last place on this list? (Not to mention 1% worsethan "Roominhouse...," which has received some harsh treatment in this thread so far.)
Maybe these are better questions than the ones I posed before:
1. Does it bother any one else that "Play The Piano..." seems to fare so well on this list (I'm taking for granted--perhaps fatally--the fact that the sample from this book ranking survey is neither skewed towards idiocy nor contains bad data) while a collection like "Dangling" gets trounced?* Statistics be what they may, this result feels like either a gross miscalculation or a gross miscarriage of reality.
2. How many of you would put either or both of these books in your top 3? Top 5?
*Statistically, this is an excellent showing, seeing as though #2 and #5 on the list vary by only 1.6%.
*I mean, I understand that "Dangling..." is underrated, but Jesus, #11? And, by extension, I wonder: just how overrated is "Play the Piano...?"
[...] "Roominghouse." [...] total B-sides. [...]

I find it a marvelous collection.
(of course it's uneven and has bad poems going with the immortals, but with Buk-poems that's alyways the case, right?)

here's the association copy to MM. Not sure, if I've posted that one before.

This needs to desist. The core of my dissertation research involves the buk.net rankings and I am increasingly uncomfortable with the tenor of this thread. Plus MY doc.(which concerns Hanks use of cleaning products [not limited to kitchen and bathroom] from 70-72) is in need of angel investors. The biggest donor will get to portray Tina Darby in flashback. So please give generously or some litigious Shit will fall.
Plus I am utilizing Valdez's attorney so Fuck with me at your own peril.
Dane's the SHIT yo! Saw him open for Lenny at the Purple Onion back in the day. Amazing! Even caught a head job from
Eartha Kitt afterward back at Lennys pad. Good times.
That was Mickey Mouse. And it was a hand-job.

Hank watched, as the the two of you--pubic lice--tousled his triangle. There's a poem about it in "Dangling In The Tournefortia."
That's right. Some heavy petting and a hand-job from an imaginary, digit-missing rodent while Diddling In the Triangular Forest.

Seriously, though, 2.4% of readers can tell you that a detailed account of your actions from that very night can be found in "Dangling In The Tournefortia."
All right. This thread was a fucking disaster and a door in the face. I can accept that. But, seriously:

1. Does anyone also believe that "Dangling In The Tournefortia" is an underrated collection? If so, why?
2. Does anyone else think Dane Cook is a ludicrous sack of shit?
I have also had my share of self-Immolating posts. Good for the skin, brother.
1. Dangling is for me his best overall work. Almost every poem works and the collection is just so cohesive.
Favorite in that one is I am a reasonable man.
2. Actually don't know who that is. So my guess is yes for sack-o-shit. Your words good for me.
I thought you were trolling before.

Re: your 1. I agree.
Re: your 2. Let's just say that I feel guilty now to have made the Dane Cook-skiroom comparison...

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