reasonknot
Founding member
so who owns the manuscripts that are unpublished and listed in the database/search for poems section?
manuscripts/Wormwood Review (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter reasonknot
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mjp
Founding member
Hundreds of different people. I got most of those scans when a guy named Scott was selling them on eBay 7 or 8 years ago. He sold a couple thousand of them, sometimes dozens a week. They were so common that you could buy one for as little as $60 (that's the least I ever paid anyway, someone else may have paid less).
As the kids say, those were the days.
As the kids say, those were the days.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
I paid about $35 for a few of them. The problem was, back then, that I could not afford to buy 20 poems a week, even at only $60 a pop.
Bill
Bill
And a couple more went last night on ebay for about $250-$300 +/-.
I really should have bitten on one of them, but even though the days of a $900 manuscript may have been dissolved for a brief moment of clarity, I had other things that somehow seemed more important. Not that a Buk-signed manuscript isn't important.
I really should have bitten on one of them, but even though the days of a $900 manuscript may have been dissolved for a brief moment of clarity, I had other things that somehow seemed more important. Not that a Buk-signed manuscript isn't important.
too bad, I missed those offers back then.
The Buk-Society could have a couple of very fine things now. (well, we do, but not these.)
I'm pretty sure, I would have bought at that price, even if I didn't have the money. It's not THAT hard, finding someone lending you 1000 bucks, but VERY hard to find Bukowski-manuscripts for sale at such a price.
The Buk-Society could have a couple of very fine things now. (well, we do, but not these.)
I'm pretty sure, I would have bought at that price, even if I didn't have the money. It's not THAT hard, finding someone lending you 1000 bucks, but VERY hard to find Bukowski-manuscripts for sale at such a price.
reasonknot
Founding member
Thanks people.Very much answers my question.Like what was said in another thread,as more people are removed from the picture,then more stuff will surface and be known to the world at large.
The survivors will be stirring the kettle with their canes.Ah,we wait like animals.Time is nothing.
The survivors will be stirring the kettle with their canes.Ah,we wait like animals.Time is nothing.
mjp
Founding member
Yes, more will always surface, but a giant horde like Scott's will likely never surface again. It was the sheer number of manuscripts that he put on the market that established the low prices. Every poem manuscript you see on eBay now was originally purchased from Scott. Okay, maybe not every one, but 99% of them.
The only person I can think of that could have a similar stash is Christa Malone, but I wonder about that. A lot of the manuscripts Scott sold were Wormwood poems. Did he get them from Malone? Or did he get them from Martin? When I asked him years ago he wouldn't say.
The only person I can think of that could have a similar stash is Christa Malone, but I wonder about that. A lot of the manuscripts Scott sold were Wormwood poems. Did he get them from Malone? Or did he get them from Martin? When I asked him years ago he wouldn't say.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
I heard the same thing. Maybe it was in the Malone Festschrift?
It's here, ironically enough: http://wormwoodreview.com/bukowski.html. Although this refers to the unpublished manuscripts. I would have thought that once published, the manuscripts either went back to the poet or all stayed with the publisher, depending on their policy.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
If I publish something I keep the manuscript copy, always. I am pretty sure that everyone else does this too and that it is the accepted norm. It is important for your files as well as for legal reasons. If, for example, a charge of plagarism came up, the publisher would be shielded, to a point, by having the author's manuscript.
So, assuming that Wormie followed that rule, then they would have owned, at some point, all of the manuscript copies.
Bill
So, assuming that Wormie followed that rule, then they would have owned, at some point, all of the manuscript copies.
Bill
mjp
Founding member
Then I guess it's safe to assume that Scott bought the 1500-2000 manuscripts from Martin. No one else would have that many to unload at one time. If not directly from Martin, from someone who was selling them for Martin (or bought them from Martin himself, etc., etc.). The point being, there would only be one person with a stack like that to sell.
reasonknot
Founding member
After reading A.Fogel ' The Switch' and then John Fante and the Hollywood Ten
back to back (Thanks to Bosp) these post about manuscripts stick hard.
Im a friggin landscaper by trade that has tapped into a bunch of artist of modern day mayhem.
SUPPORT THE SMALL PRESS .....reasonknot
back to back (Thanks to Bosp) these post about manuscripts stick hard.
Im a friggin landscaper by trade that has tapped into a bunch of artist of modern day mayhem.
SUPPORT THE SMALL PRESS .....reasonknot
Somewhere along the line I did a count of the total number of Buk poems in Wormwood. It sticks in my mind that the number was around 400-500 (97 issues at 4-5 poems per issue seems about right - this could easily be confirmed, but I'm not to be bothered after having done it once when my brain still existed). The "substantial backlog" referred to in the link I posted is unlikely to have consisted of more than about 100-200 poems, so this would seem to be nowhere near enough to explain a cache of 1,500-2,000 manuscripts.
Unless, of course, Buk submitted a whole slew of lesser poems that were not slated for publication by MM.
Unless, of course, Buk submitted a whole slew of lesser poems that were not slated for publication by MM.
FYI, the Bukowski poems published by Wormwood Review stayed in the Wormwood archive. My mother and I donated the WR archive to SUNY Buffalo's collection several years ago. That included all manuscripts and correspondence (I seem to remember there were about 120 letters from Bukowski to my father). I sent the cache of unpublished poems Bukowski submitted to Wormwood back to Linda Lee Bukowski after my father's death.
When Scott Harrison was selling those poems a few years ago, he implied that a couple might have come from the Wormwood stash. I let him know that definitely was not the case. All poem manuscripts either remained in the WR archive or went back to Linda. I have no manuscripts in my possession.
When Scott Harrison was selling those poems a few years ago, he implied that a couple might have come from the Wormwood stash. I let him know that definitely was not the case. All poem manuscripts either remained in the WR archive or went back to Linda. I have no manuscripts in my possession.
Good info Christa, thanks.
mjp: remember we discussed that the Wormwood section of your DB doesn't include the four all-Buk mags (71, 95, 110/111, 122/123), so those are the four that take your number of 93 to my number of 97. I should have written "magazines" or "chapbooks" instead of "issues" because Buk appeared in five chapbooks that were double issues. So, the total number of issues he appeared in was 97+5 = 102.
I would like to see those four all-Buk chapbooks included in the Wormwood section at some point.
mjp: remember we discussed that the Wormwood section of your DB doesn't include the four all-Buk mags (71, 95, 110/111, 122/123), so those are the four that take your number of 93 to my number of 97. I should have written "magazines" or "chapbooks" instead of "issues" because Buk appeared in five chapbooks that were double issues. So, the total number of issues he appeared in was 97+5 = 102.
I would like to see those four all-Buk chapbooks included in the Wormwood section at some point.
They are, of course, listed in the book section though:
Legs, Hips and Behind - 1978 (W 71)
Horses Don't Bet on People and Neither Do I - 1984 (W 95)
Beauti-ful - 1988 (W 110/111)
People Poems - 1991 (W 122/123)
But, you knew that. I know.
Edit:- I notice too that Grip the Walls is listed there... I don't see the other 'middle' section issues listed. Guess mjp followed Krumhansl when adding those.
From another thread:
Legs, Hips and Behind - 1978 (W 71)
Horses Don't Bet on People and Neither Do I - 1984 (W 95)
Beauti-ful - 1988 (W 110/111)
People Poems - 1991 (W 122/123)
But, you knew that. I know.
Edit:- I notice too that Grip the Walls is listed there... I don't see the other 'middle' section issues listed. Guess mjp followed Krumhansl when adding those.
From another thread:
Right; I mentioned to mjp that it would be good for those four to also be included in the Wormwood list when I sent him some lists back in August. Krumhansl is a great reference but there are some oddities. Considering all the permutations in Buk's output, it's not surprising, I suppose.
They are in there, they just aren't linked to Wormwood.
So don't knock yourself out, you know? Your other current efforts are duly appreciated.
So don't knock yourself out, you know? Your other current efforts are duly appreciated.
Thanks. Looks great now. I can't overestimate the value of Wormwood to any of you out there who want to dig a bit deeper into the works that Buk sent off to the "littles."
mjp
Founding member
Okay, the Wormwood Bukowski-only books are now added as Wormwood magazine issues (which significantly increases my previous count of 277 to 408).
The results here should also now more closely match the order in which the poems appeared in the magazines. It's not exact because the database has no notion of which poem is first when there are two poems listed on one page number.
Also I removed Grip the Walls from the book list. Only the four all-Bukowski issues should be considered books.
The results here should also now more closely match the order in which the poems appeared in the magazines. It's not exact because the database has no notion of which poem is first when there are two poems listed on one page number.
Also I removed Grip the Walls from the book list. Only the four all-Bukowski issues should be considered books.
