Needing to Express (1 Viewer)

S

Sulkpot

Hi All,

If there's anyone who may understand what I need to say then it must be you guys. I've been out most of the day in the pub, drinking, and I'm angry.

I stupidly went to a pub where the drinks are cheap, rather than a local, nice, friendly pub and I feel the need to express things I've felt many times before.

People are stupid, society is ignorant and shallow. I listened to conversations and I watched people and this can only make me conclude that I've been right all along, this so called civilisation in which I am supposed to live is just one big farce.

As I watched today people talk about nothing, pretending to be happy in their miserable and materialistic lives I just wanted to shout and scream and basically slap people into waking up.

This is not a world I want or understand, this is a joke! We have these brains and this insight that we ignore, people rarely live up to their potential so I wonder what the point of their lives is?

Yeah I know I've been drinking and I know it's not the 'norm', but please I can't possibly be the only one looking around in despair?

Is it the UK, I've been to quite a few countries and I worry this is across the board.

I can't stand what we have become, I can't accept that this is the norm, I don't want to live in a society plagued by superficiality. I want some depth.

Is it really too much to ask?
 
Being shallow is a bit of a natural defense mechanism. You put your true heart on your sleeve and people-God bless them- will step on it or spit at it.
Why be surprised you were in a bar not a prayer group. People are looking to get laid.

Sounds like you need a hug.
 
Sulkpot...I would say you are not alone. I have felt as you describe more times than I can count. I have found some places (on the Internet mostly) where others with similar opinions meet. This place (bukowski.net) seems like one of them...though I have not been here long enough to make that judgment. You might find a home at another website I have trafficked for years...we commenters there call ourselves the Expendables. I am not promising that you will find any answers there...but you might. I have worked out a lot of the arguments going in my mind there. I am not sure what your politics are...or what your opinions on the social issues we face are...but all are welcome at this site as long as you can back yourself up and deal with some very smart people who may disagree with you...people with an open mind are welcome here:

MickeyZ.net

(fyi - Mickey is a big Buk fan)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gerard, I wish I could agree that this was a defense mechanism but I have met a lot of people in my life and have found most to be tawdry and vacuous.

I'm not saying people should put their heart on their sleeve I just wish when I talk to people I didn't find them so boring, their range of knowledge and visionary is limitied to say the least and when you try to talk about things that matter they switch off or look at you like you're an alien from another planet.

I'm not surprised I'm just severely disappointed and the older I get the more people seem to annoy me. Maybe it's just me, but I do have some very dear friends who I hold close due to the fact they are interesting and want to see the world around them and actually know something about the world around them. I worry about the society I see that focuses on things and values that are really not important. This is not a place I feel at ease with, it's a place I feel compelled to detest. But again that may just be my view on things.

jmoshea thanks very much for your post, I shall check it out. It sounds like my kind of place cause I don't think people should agree with me, I embrace healthy constructive arguement and debate and always try to learn from that. I have no problem with people having opinions that differ to mine as long as they are thought out and not just reguratated from something they've been told. I don't profess to know it all and I understand life is very subjective so I am optimistic that the site you mention may be a place where I can express things and maybe obtain more of an understanding about life, about values and about myself.

It seems a simple thing but one I find hard to get to grips with when I feel detatched from society. So thanks to both of you and hopefully I can find some like minds!
 
what is it, exactly, that you bring to the table? besides a prejudice against pretty much everyone?
 
Caller number seven - you're on the air!

Yo! Sulkpot.

First time caller, long time listener.

Where do you stand on this whole Slapstick
comedy thing?

Pro or con?

I'll take my answer on the air...

- -
Okay,
Father Luke
 
You reap what you sow.
If you go out with the preconceived idea that people are assholes...congradulations you get what you looked for...assholes, thousands of them.
You need to learn how to draw the genius or whatever you are looking for out of people. Sure, you'll have to weed out a few mutts, but you will find them. If you look in the right places. So improve your surroundings. College bars at the right time or a high end coffee (or Tea) shops will more than likely have a more meaningful crowd. Well a better crowd than the discount economy pub.
If that doesn't work....well maybe it's you. We all know it can't be you because you are bright enough to be here.
 
whenever I start noticing how bad and stupid the world is, I try to figure out what is the part that I actually play in it .That changes the focus. Not moralizing , it really works. This should have been on the pothead thread but I could not find it...
 
I never understand what people mean when they say they are tired of superficiality and want depth. No one wants depth. You want some depth? Go watch Bukowski kick Linda off the couch again. What is depth? Desperation? Depravity? There is no depth.

In Sulkpot's defense though, I'm sure many of us felt that way in our teens and early 20's. But superficiality holds the world together. Take it away and we'll all be dead in a matter of months.

I was as alienated as you could be when I was a teenager, and for good reason, the family was fucked, I left home early to work a dangerous, shitty job in a basement for seven years straight (you can read about it in my upcoming book! Ha ha ha --- no really) - but later in life, in my 40's I started to take part in "superficialities" and "cliches" that I would not allow myself to be part of before that.

It felt very odd for a very long time, doing seemingly trivial things like saying "Good morning" to someone. It went against every fiber of my being. But I have to tell you, after years of forcing myself to do it, I can honestly say that there is pleasure to be found in the superficial. And the superficial almost always leads to something deeper.

But you have to engage in the superficial first. That's just the way it works.
 
from "if we take--" in Mockingbird Wish Me Luck:

But they've left us a bit of music
and a spiked show in the corner,
a jigger of scotch, a blue necktie,
a small volume of poems by Rimbaud,
a horse running as if the devil were
twisting his tail
over bluegrass and screaming, and then,
love again
like a streetcar turning the corner
on time,
the city waiting,
the wine and the flowers,
the water walking across the lake
and summer and winter and summer and summer
and winter again.
 
Sulkpot said:
Is it the UK, I've been to quite a few countries and I worry this is across the board.
Click to expand...


i don't know much about other countries, or even where you are in the uk, but there are some real wankers around here.

now i'm going out to play in the snow (i kid not.)
 
Well here I am in the sober light of day and it's an interesting read and I thank you all for your comments whether they are positive or negative.

Jordon you ask 'what is it, exactly, that you bring to the table? besides a prejudice against pretty much everyone?'.

I make no excuses for my feelings, feelings are genuine and real but you are right to ask this question. It's not easy to answer without sounding like a prick but even though I sound like a miserable bitch I do make people laugh, I make them laugh all day. I put a smile on peoples faces. I'm the sort of person and have proved it many times in the past that you can tell just about anything to and I'll never be offended and I'll always try to help. If you call me in the middle of the night feeling suicidal I'll be thre as soon as I can. I think I try to make the world a better place, I fight for peoples rights who cannot fight for themselves, I try to experience everything I can in order to understand things better.

Just because I feel the need to express how I feel deep inside doesn't mean I go around being a complete bitch, I always try to keep an open mind, I treat people how they treat me no matter how much I don't understand them.

My whole point with this thread is asking is it just me that feels like this, is there something wrong with the way I think? We all look around the world and have our philosophical questions don't we? Is everyone else happy with a society that is becoming less and less knowledgeable, less and less interested in experience, more confident and more sure of themselves? Do you really think most of the people you see could care less abut anything other then themselves? Does it really matter what car you drive, how much money you have in the bank or what status you are in your job?

I don't want to live in a bubble surrounding myself with people who think like me, I want to see the world how it really is, I want to see everyone. Only then can I make and informed opinion.

We have a country where 30 percent of people thought that Everest was in Europe. People who vote without knowing anything about politics? That worries me. Should it not?

I admit I was pretty drunk last night when I wrote that post. Perhaps I was more harsh than I would normally be. Self analysis can be a dangerous thing, but you have to know yourself and you have to question right? But if it provokes debate then that to me can only be a good thing.

Feel free to say whatever you think, don't hold back, if you think I am a horrible human being then say so. I will embrace your thoughts and feelings in order to understand you and myself better.
 
sulk, I can fully understand every single complain you made in your posts above.

but - and you KNOW it - this is no news under the sun.
sometimes the condition of the world/society/mankind is more bearable, some other times it isn't. and it is for these times, when you can't bear it, when you need friends to share your emotion - like we do here. (well, some of us do.) so don't feel too alone.


"one tombstone for the mess,
I say:
humanity, you never had it
from the beginning."


reading Bukowski, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer will help you. or a long walk through a lonely landscape.
 
mjp said:
And the superficial almost always leads to something deeper.

But you have to engage in the superficial first. That's just the way it works.
Click to expand...

Thank you superficial is the word for today.

In the midst of all of her superficial bullshit I heard her subtle cry for what she really desired.

Now go get your young ass laid and stop sulking. We love you and have a nice day.;)
 
For what its worth. I went to a memorial for a 70 year old man on Saturday. First there was a mass then a tiny reception in the hall below the church. I didn't know the guy I went my girlfriend who did. The mass was the usual. Sit kneel stand sit stand kneel. I amusd mysel by counting ceiloing tiles and looking at the stained glass below the stations of the cross. In the hall this guys wife described how they met while he was a milk man. She thought he was kind by the way the treated his horse. They married, built the house he eventually died in 52 years later. Had two children
She also mentioned that her daughter (now 51) who stood at the back of the hall and had organised the memorial was always embarrassed that her father was just a milkman.


You know every one of those stained glass panes had a dragonfly in it somehere
 
Thanks Roni I have read quite a bit of Nietzche, I do like his writings. I'll give Schopenhauer a try, I do like to walk but it seems to make me think more!

rjwink666.....erm....how did you guess, it was cheap, I am skint! That may have been the mistake!
 
The truth of the matter is, I could well have been in that Wetherspoons and you would have seen me and thought I was exactly the same as everyone else there. I appreciate the feeling of alienation amongst a crowd (particuarly a Wetherspoons crowd) but if you were there and you consider yourself to be different to the general crowd, then you have to concede there's every chance there would be someone else there with similar views or, indeed, "depth". If you heard me talk, I might be talking about something seemingly trivial like football, but, naturally, I have considered all questions you ask before. If I go to the pub though, more often than not its to escape thinking about these things and to talk superficially. Don't get me wrong though, I am not undermining the importance of football.

The materialistic nature of society, the ignorance of the general public... I think its easy to exaggerate these feelings (especially when you're drunk) to the point where it feels like no-one else thinks the way you do which, of course, is absolute nonsense. Just a quick skim over your main concerns seem to typify the alienated youth of today. Think of books like Catcher In The Rye.

I think its naive to suggest the general public is vacuous. Of course, there are people that are like that and you may find them frustrating, but that's life. Find yourself a good group of friends who aren't like that and don't worry about projecting your own values onto other people. If you believe in your own values (which obviously you would) then it should be enough to have them yourself, and know that people close to you are similar. Perhaps not similar in their stance (for example my closest friends all disagree on party politics) but in their insistence on considering their options and at least having an opinion.
 
Hey Sulk, I'm with ya 100% there. I've said the exact same words and still do sadly. I say sadly because it's become ingrained in me. I've become bitter with contempt toward the societal entrophy happening every day, most especially in America. I'm SURE we have the crown for the most dumbfucks per capita.

What to do about it? Drink at home. Read. Listen to music. Hang out with friends of like mind. Avoid the shitpeople as much as humanly possible. It works for me.
 
Jimmy Snerp said:
For what its worth. I went to a memorial for a 70 year old man on Saturday. First there was a mass then a tiny reception in the hall below the church. I didn't know the guy I went my girlfriend who did. The mass was the usual. Sit kneel stand sit stand kneel. I amusd mysel by counting ceiloing tiles and looking at the stained glass below the stations of the cross. In the hall this guys wife described how they met while he was a milk man. She thought he was kind by the way the treated his horse. They married, built the house he eventually died in 52 years later. Had two children
She also mentioned that her daughter (now 51) who stood at the back of the hall and had organised the memorial was always embarrassed that her father was just a milkman.

You know every one of those stained glass panes had a dragonfly in it somehere
Click to expand...

Ouch.

Beautiful post.
 
Jimmy Snerp said:
For what its worth. I went to a memorial for a 70 year old man on Saturday. First there was a mass then a tiny reception in the hall below the church. I didn't know the guy I went my girlfriend who did. The mass was the usual. Sit kneel stand sit stand kneel. I amusd mysel by counting ceiloing tiles and looking at the stained glass below the stations of the cross. In the hall this guys wife described how they met while he was a milk man. She thought he was kind by the way the treated his horse. They married, built the house he eventually died in 52 years later. Had two children
She also mentioned that her daughter (now 51) who stood at the back of the hall and had organised the memorial was always embarrassed that her father was just a milkman.

You know every one of those stained glass panes had a dragonfly in it somehere
Click to expand...

Yes ROC is right, this could be a poem. With dragonflies and milk horses.
 
mjp said:
I never understand what people mean when they say they are tired of superficiality and want depth. No one wants depth. You want some depth? Go watch Bukowski kick Linda off the couch again. What is depth? Desperation? Depravity? There is no depth.
Click to expand...

That's the reason I dropped out of college, and I still feel that way.
 
Sulkpot - First know that you are most definitely not alone in your observations. I look around here in the States and see quite a bit of that shallowness myself. I guess the way I try to handle it is to first try not to get too bitter about the situation (and mix their misery with my own - I'm VERY good at that) and second - resolve to "raise the bar" whenever possible. To raise the standard of discussion and make even casual conversations a little more meaningful. You have to seek these people out and you have to search for them in the right situations. This "Weatherspoons" place doesn't sound like it has many opportunities for that. Keep trying and uphold your standards and sooner or later, it will happen for you.
 
Jimmy Snerp said:
For what its worth. I went to a memorial for a 70 year old man on Saturday. First there was a mass then a tiny reception in the hall below the church. I didn't know the guy I went my girlfriend who did. The mass was the usual. Sit kneel stand sit stand kneel. I amusd mysel by counting ceiloing tiles and looking at the stained glass below the stations of the cross. In the hall this guys wife described how they met while he was a milk man. She thought he was kind by the way the treated his horse. They married, built the house he eventually died in 52 years later. Had two children
She also mentioned that her daughter (now 51) who stood at the back of the hall and had organised the memorial was always embarrassed that her father was just a milkman.

You know every one of those stained glass panes had a dragonfly in it somehere
Click to expand...

This is a lovely post Jimmy Snerp, I know that dragonflies were a very popular Victorian item .These windows sound beautiful!
 
Sulkpot said:
Thanks Roni I have read quite a bit of Nietzche, I do like his writings. I'll give Schopenhauer a try, I do like to walk but it seems to make me think more!
Click to expand...

try 'Parerga and Paralipomena' Vol. 2 first. it's easy to join in and nice to read.

also try the essay by Nietzsche about Schopenhauer: 'Schopenhauer as an educator' (or something like that. Original title: 'Schopenhauer als Erzieher').

Yes, lone walks don't stop the thinking, but at least there's no human being around.
 
roni said:
try 'Parerga and Paralipomena' Vol. 2 first. it's easy to join in and nice to read.
Click to expand...

there's an english translation which contains The Wisdom of Life and Counsels and Maxims, probably the most accessible parts of the book of which roni recommends. it's published by Prometheus Books.
 
Thanks for all the replies, I will definitely have a look at the literature mentioned.

I do think the older I get the more of a grumpy cow I become and the more intolerant I am to those around me.

God knows what I'll be like when I'm 60 :D
 
Sulkpot said:
God knows what I'll be like when I'm 60 :D
Click to expand...

Fat, and bald like the rest of us.

2406381882_80473c41cf_o.gif
 
dear Sulkpot,

please combine the essence of the poems "the genius of the crowd" & "bluebird", these are a part of the reason I still go to work with hope,
by the way I'm in Tijuana Mexico, and it's pretty fucked up here, police killing each other, corrupt government, I mean now that I see it, it's everywhere,.
there are only a few persons worried about what is really going on, in their neighborhood, in their city, in their country...so we are pretty much dead already, so....don't try, (I mean that as the way it's meant in Buk's grave....
 

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