New, slightly younger fan. (1 Viewer)

Hi! I'm Rachel, I'm 14 years old, and I am currently reading my first Bukowski book, Ham on Rye. I LOVE it! What's next? So yeah, just wanted to introduce myself. :D
 
I have an ex-girlfriend named Rachel, but she spelled it Rachael, no love loss, I hope you grow into a pleasant young woman, unlike my Rachael.....welcome to the floor
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
You should get your parents permission....or maybe they don't care. This website is more educational than most, so it could be a very good thing. Welcome.
 
You should get your parents permission....

Are there age limits here? Just curious. 14 seems young to me; but that's just a parent talking out loud. :confused:

This site being educational -- I know of one famous Rachel from history.

Vincent Van Gogh cut off the lobe of his left ear which he put into an envelope and gave to a brothel wench named Rachel with these words: "Guard this object carefully."

I wonder what that ear lobe would sell for today on eBay? ;)

Art/History lesson over.

But my questions remain...including this one: was this an inappropriate post? If so, 14 is too young.
 
...14 seems young to me; but that's just a parent talking out loud. .

All the time I hear people moaning, that our youth doesn't read books anymore. Now we HAVE a young person who reads books - and we still ain't satisfied or what?

Welcome Rachel,
have a seat and feel comfortable.
'HAM ON RYE' is an excellent choice!

Hard to advice, where to go from there. Maybe 'POST OFFICE'.

Or his books of letters.
 
Welcome, Rachel. Great to see someone from your age bracket here. I'm Gen X, and wish I had read Ham & Rye when I was in my teens. Adolescence and highschool might have been easier to stomach with Hank's book in my pocket.

<rant>
Today's society is so obsessed about protecting tender young eyes from everything that isn't fuzzy and cute, it makes me sick. Just a couple of hundred years ago, 14 year olds were old enough to join the navy as midshipmen and lead boarding parties. Teenagers lied about their ages and fought in both world wars. But now, parents need a book to help them "let go" when it's time for university? For fuck sakes.
</rant>
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
All the time I hear people moaning, that our youth doesn't read books anymore. Now we HAVE a young person who reads books - and we still ain't satisfied or what?

Welcome Rachel,
.....................

Well, I am satisfied that it is good to have the youth reading. I am fortunate to have 4 children who all read more than I did by the time they turned 18. (I was a poor reader until I found Bukowski) I have not censored anything they ever read. In fact I gave my youngest son a copy of The Starr Report because he was asking about it. My son was almost 14 at the time.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hey, if the Federal Government can publish this crap then I guess it makes Ham On Rye about as threatening as Winnie the Pooh:


Yes, this was written by Ed Meese (masterfully read by S.A. Griffin in his Christopher Walken accent). Meese was the Attorney General of the US and the self appointed guardian of our Morals for the Reagan admin. Seems that like Gay bashers, he had his own issues and seemed to get his rocks off watching porno while condemning it.

Kinda like Jimmy Swaggart.

Bill
 
Response to some of the posts above:

1. I asked if there was an age limit which is wrong. It should have been age requirement. I'm sure Methuselah can register and post here.

2. Never did I state that young people reading is a bad thing -- or don't read enough. Why take up that POV? Never once did I state, "KIDS SHOULD NOT READ." That's just plain fucking idiotic (rant). Show me a parent who doesn't want his/her child to read MORE. And, I didn't say, "Don't Read Buk." Come on, now, play fair.

3. As for kids a few hundred years ago, that's another ridiculous argument. In the 1700s, the average life span in Europe was 36. In the US, it was in the 20s. So 14 back then, well, 'nuf said.

4. There are some dicey posts and images here; hence, my QUERY. I remember one where Bukowski had his member out with a youngish man eye-balling it, if you know what I mean. Perhaps there is no age requirement for that here, but in my house there certainly is. My 12-year old can't watch porn. Even if he says please.

5. I have had a post or two pulled here, as a twelve-year old was the recipient; and IT WAS NOT APPROPRIATE FOR HER TO READ, ACCORDING TO THE MODS. I had no idea she was twelve; and felt foolish about the entire episode. But what the fuck; she could have READ IT, RIGHT? No harm in reading anything at any age.

In closing, parents have an obligation to their children. If you don't get this, well, I can't explain. (Read betwixt the lines, and perhaps FORUM applies to one of those nouns, for safety's sake - for all parties concerned.)

Pax,

homeless mind
 

mjp

Founding member
Perhaps there is no age requirement for that here, but in my house there certainly is.
Correct. And I assume that in your house you control the internet, right?

My philosophy with this site and other sites I have run that may have content that some people could find "offensive," is this: what you find offensive is not my problem.

I am not Fisher-Pricing my world to protect your precious children. If you don't want them to see words or images that you find inappropriate, then control what they are allowed to see. That is completely your responsibility, not mine.

That's a general caveat, it isn't directed at anyone in particular.
 
Those with children usually dont mind at-all handing over the center of the universe to them, those without children will be wanting to keep it for themselves. Its a big responsibility, to be at the helm of existence - especially when you're small, optimistic and unsavvy. Parents mustn't rest assured that everything will be fine. Because no one else will care to shield, protect or assist our precious children...our inheritors. A good parent will Fisher Price (nice term) the world at continuingly decreasing levels - possibly to the dismay of other humans - until it is apparent that proper strengths and resiliences have been demonstrated.

My children will be fascinated by and enthusiastic over childhood as long they care to be. And I see no reason to allow for any unnatural advancings or forays to occur. Being grown-up aint all that great. Because, it will take incomprehensible efforts-by and manipulations-of one's own perception to get moments of respite from the unshirkable chore of participating in "adult" humanity.

I dont imagine my kids will be reading Buk at 14, because they should not want to. And I will still be "should"ing their "wants".
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
There are certainly a lot of more obcscene words than the few taboo words that our government tells are "bad". There are ideas that are so sick, yet are considered perfectly OK to teach to kids. I'd rather hear my kids say "fuck" than "towelhead" or "feminazi". The word "fuck" by itself has no real meaning...

Bill
 
Correct. And I assume that in your house you control the internet, right?

My philosophy with this site and other sites I have run that may have content that some people could find "offensive," is this: what you find offensive is not my problem.

I am not Fisher-Pricing my world to protect your precious children. If you don't want them to see words or images that you find inappropriate, then control what they are allowed to see. That is completely your responsibility, not mine.

That's a general caveat, it isn't directed at anyone in particular.

General Caveat...you're smooth.

Damn, I just wanted a simple question answered.

"THERE ARE NO AGE RESTRICTIONS." Or whatever...I was hoping YOU would bring a bit of sanity to the validity of my query; which I guess you consider trite and below you.

Well Fuck Me.

First, thanks for answering my query, with parallax words.

Second, I won't apologize for being a good parent, not that you requested such. Ever take a child to the hospital emergency room? Forget it.

Third, to answer your query, the Internet in my domain is controlled by Brighthouse, Time Warner, I believe. Not me, nor the Mrs. But we do watch what our kids do. Consider it negligence in reverse.

Fourth, you didn't have to be such a prick with your answer to me, and stand up on top of the mountain and talk down. I was waiting for the thunder and lightning while reading what you wrote. Full SFX. Dang I though my laptop was going to turn into one of Moses' tablets.

You do have command of the language. Impressive. Persuasive.

My turn:

I am not Fisher-Pricing my world to protect your precious children. If you don't want them to see words or images that you find inappropriate, then control what they are allowed to see. That is completely your responsibility, not mine. - mjp

Oops, hold on second, I feel piss on my leg -- what -- it's raining?

Who the fuck do you think you are talking to. That bitch-slap is so blatant, a fourteen-year-old could see through it. Right, honey?

Actually, I agree with your philosophy for this site. And, "offensive" is a relative term, anyway.

Since this is the site where there is no sugar-coating, my bowl of frosted flakes has just been poured. No milk.

And I do believe I read one of your posts where you encouraged people to speak his or her mind, and then move on. You know, FUCK YOU and be done with it. Next page...

I have moved on; and hold no grudges.

Time to go hug my daughter, and put on Tom & Jerry.

Pax,

homeless mind
 

chronic

old and in the way
Fourth, you didn't have to be such a prick with your answer to me, and stand up on top of the mountain and talk down. I was waiting for the thunder and lightning while reading what you wrote. Full SFX. Dang I though my laptop was going to turn into one of Moses' tablets.

I think you took mjp's reply a little too personally. At least I didn't take it as being directed at you necessarily, but more as a general this-is-the-way-it-is statement.

Anyway, if a 14 yo is savvy enough to be reading Bukowski and look him up online, there's probably not much here that would cause them to be any more corrupted than they already are. I have 8 and 4 year old kids and there's a lot of stuff I hope they don't see online for a long time, but buknet is pretty innocuous for the most part.
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
I thought mjp's answer was very nice and made an understandable point. I did not feel the piss on you slant homeless mind seems to have picked up.

In fact I asked Rachel if she should ask permission. She would know if she was over any lines her parents may have set down.-if her parents even set any. Yes this is a very good website and it is both entertaining and educational, but some of us can be out there and I would be concerned about the impression and influence on someone under 15 years of age.
Homeless mind, if you read this, I think you may have over reacted a bit. I guess as parents we tend to try to whitewash things, cushion the blow of the harsh reality of the world. It doesn't make that much of a difference.
Even if our dear Rachel wants to grow up to be a Catholic nun, she's going to be in this same world whatever it is.
My daughter shocked the hell out of me at that age- all for the sake of art.
 
Hey again! In case your wondering, I like reading some of the more "out-there" authors. A few of my favorites (besides Buk) are Vonnegut, Burroughs, and Burgess. I also like reading controversial plays, such as Equus and Spring Awakening (the play, not the musical, but I love the musical version as well).

Oh, and to whoever asked, I did get permission. My dad was a bit iffy about reading Buk at first, but now he's pretty cool with it (he's a Buk fan too).

I think you took mjp's reply a little too personally. At least I didn't take it as being directed at you necessarily, but more as a general this-is-the-way-it-is statement.

Anyway, if a 14 yo is savvy enough to be reading Bukowski and look him up online, there's probably not much here that would cause them to be any more corrupted than they already are. I have 8 and 4 year old kids and there's a lot of stuff I hope they don't see online for a long time, but buknet is pretty innocuous for the most part.

I'm not completely corrupted. Yet. But it's weird; my dad is are cool with me reading Naked Lunch, Brave New World, A Clockwork Orange, and Buk, but I can't read American Pyscho for some reason. :confused: I'm also planning on reading Peyton Place, The Wild Party, and Valley of the Dolls. And more Buk, of course. I've been a big reader since I was 3, and I've been told I'm pretty mature for my age.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Welcome aboard, Rachel! I wish I had discovered Buk at age 14, as you have. What's next? Perhaps another novel? They're all great, but you should wait with the novel "Pulp", because it contains a lot of hints that you'll not understand until you've read a lot of Buk. You should also look into the short story collections. If you want to read some of his poems, there's a lot of them here you could start out with. Happy reading, Rachel! :)
 
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But my questions remain...including this one: was this an inappropriate post? If so, 14 is too young.


Nope. :D

Considering Buk's writing, I would expect the boards to be a more "mature" place. And as for my age, well, I'm not much for the newer "teen" novels. They bore me. I like out-there stuff. Better then that Twilight crap.
 
Well, maybe its too late for the prodigy here (no offence Wierd) but I am damn glad I saved the good books for later (college and beyond). Having read them with some life under my belt I was better suited for their nourishings. Better affected, better armed, self-determined...I was a force - voracious - fueled by all the Art that backed me up. Me against the world...(and I felt I stood a chance). So as the 1600 SAT crew assimilated, I was in wonderland, with menial tasks aiming to be earthshattering events. And a great deal of my inner strength had everything to do with childhood recollections, priorities that abhorred responsibility, timeclocks, and rigidity. If I could do it again, I would have waited til 30 to read "The Wasteland"...some bad advise had me jumping the gun; so, tainted was what could have been another epiphany...because at 22, I didnt have a clue. "At22 I didnt have a clue" there could be another atrocious song there....pardon me, fellas - I'm suddently inspired. I'm gonna write another song with a few F-bombs in it:D.
 

Lolita Twist

Rose-hustler
<rant>
Today's society is so obsessed about protecting tender young eyes from everything that isn't fuzzy and cute, it makes me sick. Just a couple of hundred years ago, 14 year olds were old enough to join the navy as midshipmen and lead boarding parties. Teenagers lied about their ages and fought in both world wars. But now, parents need a book to help them "let go" when it's time for university? For fuck sakes.
</rant>

Exaaaaactly. This should be nailed to every door of every school.

LIKE MARTIN LUTHER'S 95 THESIS! (end History lesson here)

Welcome, Rachel :). Glad to see youth killing censorship and reading good shit.

EDIT: Scribbler: y'know... everyone says that, about life experience. You don't have to be good Don Perignon to have life experience. I went through more shit in my life in my very young youth than I did when I was older... I learned more about life when I was young. I dunno, I was an odd duck though. The kind that ate lunch in the bathroom stall and read Bukowski :p. Also the kind that tucked my mother in at night, and I looked older, so I got to go to the track. I grew up quickly, or rather, had to. But I wouldn't trade any of it. Shitty times, but also, great times.

Considering Buk's writing, I would expect the boards to be a more "mature" place. And as for my age, well, I'm not much for the newer "teen" novels. They bore me. I like out-there stuff. Better then that Twilight crap.

And, haha. I like you.
 
^Hehe, thanks. I think we'll get along. :D

And I just finished Ham on Rye. now I'm gonna start The Wild Party (loved the off-Broadway musical, wanted to read the original poem), and then read South of No North and Mother Night (Vonnegut). I'm such a bookworm. :P
 

Lolita Twist

Rose-hustler
^Hehe, thanks. I think we'll get along. :D

And I just finished Ham on Rye. now I'm gonna start The Wild Party (loved the off-Broadway musical, wanted to read the original poem), and then read South of No North and Mother Night (Vonnegut). I'm such a bookworm. :P

You remind me of myself at that age, hell even now. I like what I hear :)

And, chronic, I was just in the stall, not actually... y'know, women don't do that. Mr. G knows that better than anyone. That's why it makes perfect sense that I requested two seperate bathrooms, one sound-proof.

I have fecal phobia.
 
Hey Welcome, slightly younger fan!

As a fan of Bret Easton Ellis, you might not find American Psycho THAT interesting anyway.
I found it to be hilarious since it was a complete satire on
the late 80s 'wall street' yuppie crowd.
Everything from the avant-guard restaurants with menus made of metal,
to the meticulously detailed descriptions of songs off of Phil Collins and Whitney Houston albums.
Since I lived through the 80s, I thought it was painfully accurate to the time.
But who knows! If you ever get a chance to read it, check it out.
The movie, is as brilliant as the book too.
HOWEVER, there are a lot of needless chapters that sound like the lyrics to some Cannibal Corpse songs, so beware I guess. I thought THOSE type of chapters were silly and goofy, and completely unnecessary, which ultimately bogged down the flow a bit.

You might find Less Than Zero or Rules Of Attraction much more of an entertaining read.

When I was 14, I got turned on to Jim Carroll who wrote Basketball Diaries and Forced Entries(which is part2, more or less)
HUGE inspiration.
You might like it, according to your tastes.
But anyway, welcome!
 
[...] Never once did I state, "KIDS SHOULD NOT READ." That's just plain fucking idiotic [...]

Never did I state that you did.
My fault to start my post, which was a general rant at my experiences with a lot of adult people, looking down at 14 yearolds as if they were little children, with a quote by you.

sorry for that. No offence intended. There were others here who also made a topic out of her age, though not as serious as you did, that's why I choose your words to jump in.

But all in all - it was a GENERAL remark!
(and only one line btw.)

The rest of my post was talking to Rachel, welcoming her as we do with new members and talking to her in the same natural tone we old kids here use. When I was 14, I was suffering from adults talking to me like a 5 yearold mental midget. Well, not exactly, but you get it, I guess...


Rachel, 'SOUTH OF NO NORTH' is a good place to continue Buk.

Vonnegut's a great choice too. Have you read 'Breakfast of Champions'?
 
Actually, 5-year-old mental midget does describe how some adults I encounter treat me.

I LOVED Breakfast of Champions! I always found Kilgore Trout interesting, and I liked how Vonnegut himself became a character/god towards the end.
 
You sound like you read tons of stuff. Lots more than I did at your age. I'm dyslexic, but really wasn't aware of that until recently. Wasn't a lot of knowledge about dyslexia back then, so I thought I was just stupid.

Couldn't finish books. Sometimes spent half an hour on a single paragraph before I realized it. I guess that's why I started with poetry. Novels always intimidated me back in the day.
 

mjp

Founding member
Ever take a child to the hospital emergency room?
Yes. Would you like to see the pictures of him recuperating from the car accident? They aren't pretty. You probably don't want your kids to see them. I took him to Little League games too, and picked him up from the police station at three in the morning when he was 15 years old. All of the wonderful things you rosey-cheeked parents have to look forward to, I've done them. What's your point?

Anyway, like I said, I wasn't responding to you specifically. If any parent doesn't like something out in the world, then they should keep their kids away from it. I thought that was common sense, but like so much that should be common sense, it is not.

Where I have a problem is when these parents try to tell me that I can't see something because they deem it inappropriate for their children. That is the biggest con that religious fundamentalists have foisted on the world in 2000 years. Burn the witch! Burn the witch! Or the books or the films...
 
The perplexity of years gives us all scars in varied situations.

Sometimes, pain of the past rears a head that should remain buried.

Your response to me is that of a gentleman. Thank you. While you may not subscribe to be there, you would be a welcome ally in my foxhole...

Decorum appreciated.

Pax,

homeless mind
 

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