Oh, thy starry night! ... Bukowski in the Sky with Diamonds (1 Viewer)

cirerita

Founding member
Well, not exactly, but here's B's astrological chart as published in the A&P Review in 1966.

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mjp

Founding member
Well here it is: irrefutable scientific proof that Bukowski was indeed a human volcano! Finally!

I will add it to the timeline. Along with the Phrenology, Palmistry and tea leaf reading results.

I love science!



I would say that I love the 1960's too, but people still believe in this shit (sorry Mat) here in the 21st century, so that wouldn't make any sense. Go figger.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Thanks a lot, cirerita! - I would be interesting to see what an Astrologer could get out of it...
 

mjp

Founding member
An "astrologer" could get anything they wanted to get out of it. Whatever it took to make you feel good. That's what they do.

I can replicate the "accuracy" of any astrological "reading" without even looking at a fancy chart or knowing when you were born. Anyone can. It's a con game, you see.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Yes, lots of so-called astrologers use astrology as a scam, no doubt. Although I don't believe in astrology, numberology or any of the other hogwash belief systems, it would be fun to give Buk's birthday to one of the 'serious' astrologers who follow the rules of interpretation and see what he comes up with. Just the birthday without Buk's name attached, of course. All in good fun, nothing more. I don't expect much to come of it though since you can always find something that fits in any horoscope regardless of birthdays, signs etc., so it's probably a waste of time anyway...
 
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mjp

Founding member
What would be interesting is to give it to three or four of them and see how they differ. The similarities would all be generalizations.

I know someone who is serious about this stuff and I think he may have actually done Bukowski's before as well. I'll try to remember to ask him next time I see him.

---

Roni, have you ever tried to dig up a birth record? I mean, we need the exact time for an accurate reading... ;)
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
What would be interesting is to give it to three or four of them and see how they differ. The similarities would all be generalizations.

Yes, that would be very interesting and great fun! And they should'nt know it's Buk's horoscope they're doing, of course. ;)
 
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An "astrologer" could get anything they wanted to get out of it. Whatever it took to make you feel good. That's what they do.

I can replicate the "accuracy" of any astrological "reading" without even looking at a fancy chart or knowing when you were born. Anyone can. It's a con game, you see.

I believe in all of these!

But mostly I belive in LSD.

Which is L-ucy in the S-ky with D-iamonds.

It's far out!
 

chronic

old and in the way
From Absolutely Live by The Doors

Morrison: I don't know how many of you people believe in astrology...

Girl in audience: I do! I do!

Morrison: I think it's a bunch of bullshit, myself.

(Same) Girl in audience: So do I!


And my point is?
 
I remember that-I'm reading a biography about Jim Morrison just because MJP told me he was the second best poet out of La-La Land.

And I thought Buk was Number one but it turns his choice is someone (ahem) closer to him.
 
thanks for that piece, cire!

What would be interesting is to give it to three or four of them and see how they differ.
Oh yeah, that would be VERY interesting!

Roni, have you ever tried to dig up a birth record?
a facsimile is in Howie's 'BiP', p.22 and says 10pm.

Sounds a bit too exact a full hour to me, like they meant "somewhen around 10 pm". If we don't have it close enough the time won't be of much use.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Sounds a bit too exact a full hour to me
Yes, it sounds a bit too exact not mentioning minutes, but it's good enough to make a horoscope out of. Most horoscopes are made knowing only the hour, because people don't remember, or have been told, the exact minute of their birth. So, August 16 at 10 PM will do nicely...
 
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I've dabbled in astrology over the years, and here's one of the patterns Bukowski has in his birth chart that can be verified by anyone who has studied it... verbatim text from Heaven Knows What by Grant Lewi, a description that fits very well:

VENUS CONJUNCTION SATURN

You have an extremely complex emotional nature subject to dejection, depression of spirits, and discontent arising from emotional causes. This usually goes back to your childhood, and the cold or unsympathetic treatment of you by one or both parents which has tended to warp your emotional nature. You are sensitive and have been hurt much too easily, so that you have withdrawn into yourself and give the appearance of being detached and a little hard"”which of course you are not... You have a somewhat sacrificial attitude toward love matters, believing that pain and suffering are the lot of those who love; and a liberal dose of self-pity generally accompanies this position. Your emotional troubles arise not only from the unkindness of others, but also from your somewhat suspicious attitude toward those who love you, which irritates and angers them and in the end may cause them to act toward you in just the manner you don't wish a sort of "that which I have feared hath come upon me" condition.

Based upon a likely 10 PM birth time, there are numerous other patterns in Buk's birth chart, according to the principles of interpretation in astrology, that point to his artistic genius as a poet and novelist, gambler and alcoholic, believe it or not.

Poptop
 
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mjp

Founding member
slimedog;81446]And I thought Buk was Number one but it turns his choice is someone (ahem) closer to him.[QUOTE=Ambreen;81473]No said:
*quickly runs away*[/SIZE]
Exacto, Ambreen.
[/QUOTE]If you aren't your own favorite writer, you shouldn't be a writer.

Based upon a likely 10 PM birth time [assorted hippie bullshit] point to his artistic genius as a poet and novelist, gambler and alcoholic, believe it or not.
Not.

Not unless every other human born around that time is also an artistic genius, poet, novelist, gambler and alcoholic.

To believe that the arrangement of certain planets (oh, I'm sorry, only the ones nearby, in our solar system...you know 25 million to 3 billion miles away) at the time of your birth affects your life in the least is the most profoundly idiotic thing I think mankind has ever come up with.


Peace and love! (But you fuckers are making it difficult.)
 
I am by no means a believer in astrology, but it is possible that astrology points out a certain potential that, combined with genetics and upbringing, results in the overall disposition of a person. So, I don't buy the argument that every person born at a certain time must turn out the same way to justify astrology. Genetic disposition and environment play at least as important roles.

Or maybe not. It is certainly likely that astrology is completely bunk. But it's possible it isn't, if you consider that it's only part of the explanation.
 

cirerita

Founding member
To believe that the arrangement of certain planets ... at the time of your birth affects your life in the least is the most profoundly idiotic thing I think mankind has ever come up with.

You might have forgotten your friend Bush :D
 

mjp

Founding member
I figure everyone already assumes Bush, so mentioning him would be redundant.

It is certainly likely that astrology is completely bunk. But it's possible it isn't...
Okay, it's real and it's not, check. ;) Come on, man. You're pissing all over science and reason.

I'll make this easy to resolve: explain the science that supports astrology.

The science that proves - okay, even suggests - that the position of a planet 3 billion miles away at the moment you were born affects your personality.

Anyone feel free to jump in.

I'll wait.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
I think you have a point, PS. I've heard that astrology only points out your potential whether you realize that potential or not.
I don't believe in astrology myself but I still think it would be interesting and fun to see Buk's horoscope. Even better, done by different astrologers, so we could compare the horoscopes to one another. In theory they should get to the same result in general, at least if they follow the same astrological system. One thing is for sure - it's not a science, whatever they say themselves.

Based upon a likely 10 PM birth time, there are numerous other patterns in Buk's birth chart, according to the principles of interpretation in astrology, that point to his artistic genius as a poet and novelist, gambler and alcoholic, believe it or not.

Could you come up with some more patterns, Poptop? So far it adds up...a little bit too much maybe.
 
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chronic

old and in the way
To believe that the arrangement of certain planets (oh, I'm sorry, only the ones nearby, in our solar system...you know 25 million to 3 billion miles away) at the time of your birth affects your life in the least is the most profoundly idiotic thing I think mankind has ever come up with.

Maybe so, but you have to admit that the Last Supper Talking Clock, the Hawaii Chair and the World Bank all run a pretty close second.
 

number6horse

okyoutwopixiesoutyougo
When it comes to using the position of the stars to reveal ANYTHING other than your fixed position on earth, I believe Mr. Zappa said it best with these liner notes :

onesizeinner.jpg
 
There are enough astrology writings in books, websites, magazine and newspaper columns out there that at least one out of the thousands of birth predictions is bound to be correct to fit the person looked for. We always tend to look for things that affirm our beliefs, anyway. Somebody finds a horoscope that looks similar to Bukowski and it's amusing, but it is nothing more than chance. My girlfriend showed me an astrology thing that described her very well, back from the year 2000; she hasn't found another one as accurate. Why not? Because it all depends on how the astrology writer woke up that morning, and how his/her mood is aligned with the weather.
 
is there still anybody willing to get us several different horoscopes for Hank made? (without letting the astrologer know who's radix he's got.)
- anybody?



ps:
I want this Jesus-figure!
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
When it comes to using the position of the stars to reveal ANYTHING other than your fixed position on earth, I believe Mr. Zappa said it best with these liner notes :

Ah yes, the Cal Schenkel drawing from the cover of "One Size Fits All" album. I love the drawings he did for some of Zappa's albums...:D

ps:
I want this Jesus-figure!

I thought about buying it for a born-again fundamentalist Christian I know, but I'm afraid he would take it the wrong way - which of course would be the right way to take it...:)
 
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... I thought about buying it for a born-again fundamentalist Christian ...

don't waste it on This kinda people!
There's no future in them.
Buy it for meee!

Now, THAT won't be wasted:
I'd go to church with this action-figure of buddy Jesus and will see what happens to those breads and fish.

And dammit, they didn't include some water! May be this would turn into wine! Lots of wine!
 

hank solo

Just practicin' steps and keepin' outta the fights
Reaper Crew
Moderator
Founding member
And dammit, they didn't include some water! May be this would turn into wine! Lots of wine!

Look again roni, at the large flasks/urns/vases with the blue or red 'contents' depending on which way up Jesus likes them :)

I just noticed the glow in the dark hands. Nice, no miraculous touch :rolleyes:
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
don't waste it on This kinda people!
There's no future in them.
Buy it for meee!

LOL - Good point, Roni! If I buy one, I'll put you in my will so you can inherit it. In the meantime I'll share all the wine with you I can squeeze out of the figure, but don't get your hopes up, those ridiculous..er..religious figure heads are some tough motherfuckers to deal with...
 
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Okay, it's real and it's not, check. ;) Come on, man. You're pissing all over science and reason.

I'll make this easy to resolve: explain the science that supports astrology.

Hey; you know I'm all about science. But even good old Albert Einstein accepted the possibility of a higher power (and that leaves the door open of all sorts of crap). Maybe he was wrong; that I'll certainly accept that too. I take nothing as "gospel," as it were.

But I do accept the notion that there just might be something other than natural order; a higher power, as it were. Maybe natural order is that higher power, and we just haven't correctly defined or interpreted it.

Sorry to sound so hippy-dippy bullshit, because I don't mean it to be so. I'm very much a realist, but I also accept the possibility that there's something out there that we can't define. And that is the very nature of a true scientist. Believe what you observe, but always question your findings and the basis for them.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
The human mind is limited, so science will probably never have all the answers.
(Not that this fact should be used to believe in all kinda nonsens)
 
Yes, but a good scientist always comes back to this. Both of these, in fact. I try to undertake all of my work we these two general tenets in mind.

I know I can give my client an answer, but I cannot always be sure it's the correct answer (they often hate this, but I need to convince them that it's not always possible). Sometimes I can, depending on the nature of the question. I also give everything I do the "straight-face" test.

Here's where astrology generally fails. But can I really be sure?
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Here's where astrology generally fails. But can I really be sure?

To answer if astrology holds water you'll have to examine their methods, I think. Personally, I have a problem when they claim that the planets and star constellations stands for different things. F.ex. that the various signs are ruled by the various planets, and that the planets represents different drives or psychological tendencies. Of course, I can't disprove it but it sounds like nonsens to me. I wonder if any astronomers believe in astrologi ;)
Whenever there's something that cannot be known for sure, it opens up for all sorts of theories and belief systems, and I think believing in any belief system limits our outlook.
 
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