Old Westerns (1 Viewer)

I just watched "The Man From Laramie" yesterday and it got me thinking. Who was the better western actor, John Wayne or Jimmy Stewart? Of course, John Wayne would probably be everyone's first choice, but I think one could argue that Jimmy Stewart could hold his own against John Wayne. I've seen numerous Jimmy Stewart westerns and have really enjoyed all of them.
 

ROC

It is what it is
In an acting contest between John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart, Patrick Stewart comes out ahead every time.

His Shakespeare is up there with the greats, his off broadway stuff has been well received and there has never been a better captain of the Enterprise, let's face it.

Not coincidentally, this very topic was the central theme of Bukowski's only true non-fiction work entitled "Cowboy actors; an hierarchical checklist.

It's awesome stuff- you should check it out.
 
Notwithstanding ROCs comments, which have some small modicum of merit ;) , I think that both Marion Morrison and James Stewart are eclipsed by far by Lee Van Cleef.
 
Didn't Stewart always play a sissy in westerns? And damn The Birdcage - can't watch Wayne walk without chuckling. Everyone knows Eastwood and Cooper would roll these two pansies up and smoke 'em with one inhale.
 
All I know is if I go for more than two years without watching The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, I just don't quite feel right.
70fasw.jpg

Now thats one bad MoFo!!
 

mjp

Founding member
Yes, yes. Clint Eastwood was the ultimate cartoon (er...movie) cowboy. If you want to see some more realistic cowboy acting get your hands on the Deadwood DVDs.

Years ago I was working with someone who worked on many John Wayne movies, doing the wardrobe. He said to me once, "The Duke favored a wide stripe." When I asked him what that meant, he said that any time there were military uniforms on screen, the kind with the stripe down the outer seam, Wayne made the costumers give him a stripe wider than any other actors that might appear on screen with him. When I asked who would ever notice that, he just repeated, "The Duke favored a wide stripe! And we did what the Duke said."
 
If you want to see some more realistic cowboy acting get your hands on the Deadwood DVDs.
mjp
Did you mean the fucking Deadwood fucking HBO DVDs? Maybe the fucks had fucking realistic fucking cowboy acting, but not fucking realistic fucking dialog.
Or so says Al Swearengen, the fuck.
 

mjp

Founding member
Well, cocksucker, the fucking dialog is comparable to what the fucking dialog would have been 150 years ago.

You see, if they used a word that packed the same punch back then as something like cocksucker does now, you as the viewer would wonder, "What's so bad about calling someone a sidebarrel pulling gekko? What does that even mean?"

Ya dig?

So, no, they didn't run around saying cocksucker every other word in 1870, but the equivalent modern language was used for your benefit. So it would have the same impact on you as it did on people back in the day.

But the language - not the swearing - is the most awe inspiring thing about that show. Okay, the language and the brutal, unpredictable violence. And the mud. And everything else about it.

The old west was never done better. And yes, South Dakota was still "the west" in those days.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
But the language - not the swearing - is the most awe inspiring thing about that show. Okay, the language and the brutal, unpredictable violence. And the mud. And everything else about it.

The old west was never done better. And yes, South Dakota was still "the west" in those days.

It's the best western TV series I've ever seen, and much much more realistic than any John Wayne western ever was.

Speaking of Wayne westerns, "The Searchers" wasn't too bad for a 1950's western, and "True Grit" was funny but that was of course more like a western comedy. I think that's Wayne's two best westerns.
 
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hoochmonkey9

Art should be its own hammer.
Moderator
Founding member
The Searchers is great, but it would have been just as good without John Wayne. every time I watch it, I think Boy, I wish Robert Mitchum was in this...

you've probably guessed, I'm not much of a John Wayne fan.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
I'm not much a Wayne fan either, but it was refreshing to see Wayne as the bad guy for a change, wanting to kill his niece (?) although he changed his mind at the end of the movie.
You're probably right though, Robert Mitchum would've been a great choice for that part.
 
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Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
I think that both Marion Morrison and James Stewart are eclipsed by far by Lee Van Cleef.

I agree with Purple but Lee Van Cleef misses some popularity because he plays a bad guy so well. His characters have a strong presence that over shadows most actors around him.

Gene Hackman played one of the best villains in The Unforgiven. Too bad Hackman didn't do more wasterns.
 
Karl May's Winnetou and Old Shatterhand were part of my childhood. But the idiot was never in America, he betrayed a generation. And the movies were bad, very very bad.

The Magnificent Seven rocked.
 

Johannes

Founding member
Karl May's Winnetou and Old Shatterhand were part of my childhood. But the idiot was never in America, he betrayed a generation. And the movies were bad, very very bad.

But that kind of makes sense, because those movies which formed our inner picture of the so called "West" forever when we were children are hardly known in the USA, or are they? Anybody know those guys?


winnetou2997343l.jpg



Almost every American I asked has answered me: "Winnetou? Who the fuck is that?"
 

Johannes

Founding member
I forgot to add that the subliminal gay tendencies between those two, errrm, "friends" have been discussed for ages ;)
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
But that kind of makes sense, because those movies which formed our inner picture of the so called "West" forever when we were children are hardly known in the USA, or are they? Anybody know those guys?

I watched the Winnetou westerns as a kid. They weren't all that good but I did'nt notice that as a kid. I thought they were great back then. If anybody formed our inner picture of the Wild West, it was people like John Wayne and Gary Cooper etc. Of course, it might have been different in Germany where Karl May's books about Winnetou always were popular.

It's hank solo and hoochmonkey9 of course.

Who's the guy with the rifle then? ;)
 
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Rekrab

Usually wrong.
Okay. I have to confess. I like John wayne. I love westerns. But what tears me up (both as in rips me up and brings tears mto my eyes) is goddamned Little House on The Prarie. Maybe it's because I have daughters, the family connection, but shit, the stories are good (squeaky clean and American pie wholesome, but also grounded in real history) and they work, they pull the strings, and Pa is fixing up an old set of wagon wheels to sell, and Mr. Edwards brought Christmas presents, trudging through icy streams -- how can you not love that? I know, I know...
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
what tears me up (both as in rips me up and brings tears mto my eyes) is goddamned Little House on The Prarie.
Little House On The Prairie is rather sentimental but I like (most of) the episodes too, and I love Mr. Edwards, he's quite a character.
Some of the episodes have a bit of social critique in them. I remember an episode about a traveling preacher ripping off people and causing harm by getting people to rely on God's miracles instead of the doctor, just as the (TV) preachers do nowadays.
 
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