Quotes for Stubborn Hangovers and Chafed Lungs

"Don't watch porn. Use your imagination."
?graffiti from the Balkans

"When you're going through an illness, you
need that kind of [artistic] expression because
you don't want to lay all that on the people you
love. You need to work through that internally.
It is the best way I can do that?to put it out
there and help heal myself."
?Tina Johnson, artist, weaver, painter

Poptop (1/3 of a bottle to go)
 
All paths lead to the same goal: to convey to others what we are. And we must pass through solitude and difficulty, isolation and silence, in order to reach forth to the enchanted place where we can dance our clumsy dance and sing our sorrowful song. "”Pablo Neruda

There is a vitality, a life force, a quickening that is translated through you into action, and because there is only one of you in all time, this expression is unique. And if you block it, it will never exist through any other medium, and be lost. The world will not have it. It is not your business to determine how good it is. Nor how valuable it is. Nor how it compares with other expressions. It is your business to keep it yours, clearly and directly, to keep the channel open. You do not even have to believe in yourself or your work. You have to keep open and aware directly to the urges that motivate you. Keep the channel open. No artist is ever pleased. There is no satisfaction whatever at any time. There is only a queer, divine dissatisfaction, a blessed unrest that keeps us marching and makes us more alive than the others. "”Martha Graham to Agnes DeMille

Artistic growth is, more than anything else, a refining of the sense of truthfulness. The stupid believe that to be truthful is easy; only the artist, the great artist, knows how difficult it really is. ?Willa Cather
 
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Not only is there no God, but try getting a plumber on weekends.

Life is full of misery, loneliness, and suffering - and it's all over much too soon.

What if everything is an illusion and nothing exists? In that case, I definitely overpaid for my carpet.

Woody Allen
 
From an interview with mr.Allen:
Does life imitate art or does art imitate life?
"Art is unique,life imitates bad T.V."
.....................................
Hows it called, this wonderfull unsuppressed feeling of total human freedom?

- Guillotine?

---------------------
I was born.I live.I will die.
 
Let the beauty we love be what we do. "”Rumi

I tore myself away from the safe comfort of certainties
through my love for truth; and truth rewarded me.
"”Simone de Beauvoir

Education consists mainly in what we have unlearned.
"”Mark Twain

That so few dare to be eccentric marks the chief danger
of the time. "”John Stuart Mill

In the coming world, they will not ask me, 'Why were
you not Moses?' They will ask me, 'Why were you not
Zusya?' "”Zusya

I like work: it fascinates me. I can sit and look at it
for hours. "”Jerome K. Jerome

It doesn't not matter how slowly you go so long as
you do not stop. "”Confucius

When you seek it, you cannot find it. "”Zen saying

If you know fundamentally there is nothing to seek,
you have settled your affairs. "”Rinzai

Don't try. "”Charles Bukowski

Everyone is in the best seat. "”John Cage

Knowledge is knowing as little as possible.
"”Charles Bukowski

To know that you do not know is the best. To pretend
to know when you do not know is disease. "”Lao Tzu

I don't know. I don't care. And it doesn't make any
difference. "”Jack Kerouac

Don't think: Look! "”Wittgenstein
 
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ART when really understood is the province of every human being. It is simply a question of doing things, anything, well. It is not an outside, extra thing.

When the artist is alive in any person, whatever his kind of work may be, he becomes an inventive, searching, daring, self-expressing creature. He becomes interesting to other people. He disturbs, upsets, enlightens, and he opens ways for a better understanding. Where those who are not artists are trying to close the book, he opens it, shows there are still more pages possible.

The world would stagnate without him, and the world would be beautiful with him; for he is interesting to himself and he is interesting to others. He does not have to be a painter or sculptor to be an artist. He can work in any medium. He simply has to find the gain in the work itself, not outside it.

The work of the artist is no light matter. Few have the courage and stamina to see it through. You have to make up your mind to be alone in many ways. We like sympathy and we like to be in company. It is easier than going it alone. But alone one gets acquainted with himself, grows up and on, not stopping with the crowd. It costs to do this. If you succeed somewhat you may have to pay for it as well as enjoy it all your life.

Cherish your own emotions and never undervalue them.

We are not here to do what has already been done.

There are two classes of human beings. One has ideas, which it believes in fully, perhaps, but modifies to bring about "success." The other class has ideas which it believes in and must carry out absolutely; success or no success. The first class has a tremendous majority, and they are all slaves. The second class are the only free people in the world. Some are kept under the grind of poverty. Some are sent to jail, but they are still the only free class. But the latter class does not always get ground under the heel, nor sent to jail. People are not always fools. There are those who only want "to be shown," want to know, and there must be someone who has the courage to show them...And it is because there are many people who are not fools and only want "to be shown," that in spite of the conventions of institutions' there has always been a place open for me, although there has never been a time that failure has not been predicted.

?Robert Henri, The Art Spirit
 

d gray

tried to do his best but could not
Founding member
nice, poptop! - i knew that one from the first line. great choice. i've read that book many times. very inspiring.
 

chronic

old and in the way
There are two kinds of light - the glow that illuminates, and the glare that obscures.

James Thurber
 

the only good poet

One retreat after another without peace.
ART when really understood is the province of every human being. It is simply a question of doing things, anything, well. It is not an outside, extra thing.

When the artist is alive in any person, whatever his kind of work may be, he becomes an inventive, searching, daring, self-expressing creature. He becomes interesting to other people. He disturbs, upsets, enlightens, and he opens ways for a better understanding. Where those who are not artists are trying to close the book, he opens it, shows there are still more pages possible.

The world would stagnate without him, and the world would be beautiful with him; for he is interesting to himself and he is interesting to others. He does not have to be a painter or sculptor to be an artist. He can work in any medium. He simply has to find the gain in the work itself, not outside it.

The work of the artist is no light matter. Few have the courage and stamina to see it through. You have to make up your mind to be alone in many ways. We like sympathy and we like to be in company. It is easier than going it alone. But alone one gets acquainted with himself, grows up and on, not stopping with the crowd. It costs to do this. If you succeed somewhat you may have to pay for it as well as enjoy it all your life.

Cherish your own emotions and never undervalue them.

We are not here to do what has already been done.

There are two classes of human beings. One has ideas, which it believes in fully, perhaps, but modifies to bring about "success." The other class has ideas which it believes in and must carry out absolutely; success or no success. The first class has a tremendous majority, and they are all slaves. The second class are the only free people in the world. Some are kept under the grind of poverty. Some are sent to jail, but they are still the only free class. But the latter class does not always get ground under the heel, nor sent to jail. People are not always fools. There are those who only want "to be shown," want to know, and there must be someone who has the courage to show them...And it is because there are many people who are not fools and only want "to be shown," that in spite of the conventions of institutions' there has always been a place open for me, although there has never been a time that failure has not been predicted.

?Robert Henri, The Art Spirit
"if the fool were to persist in his folly he would become wise." william blake.
 

1fsh2fsh

I think that I think too much
Founding member
Making the simple complicated, thats commonplace. making the complicated simple, awsomely simple, thats creativity. Mingus (there, that will get that damn banner off the top of my page.:o )
 

the only good poet

One retreat after another without peace.
"i'd rather work than feel myself alive." antonin artaud.

is that man crazy!

"people who come out of nowhere and try to put into words any part of what goes on in their minds are pigs. the whole literary scene is a pigpen, especially today." artaud again.

maybe not...

if my memory serves me (and it doesn't usually... wasn't b's first notes column a review of the artaud anthology published by city lights...come to think of it, maybe it was a review of the memoir papa hemingway.
 
Genius...

...is not always under the control of its possessor. For
being a fire of most searching and persuasive quality it
does so command the soul, and through the soul the brain
and hand, that oftentimes it would appear as if the actual
creator of a great work is the last unit to be considered in
the scheme, and that it has been carried out by some force
altogether beyond and above humanity. "”Marie Corelli
 
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Freedom...

...is not a reaction: freedom is not choice. It is man's
pretence that because he has choice he is free. Freedom
is pure observation without direction, without fear of
punishment and reward. Freedom is without motive;
freedom is not at the end of the evolution of man but
lies in the first step of his existence. In observation one
begins to discover the lack of freedom. Freedom is found
in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence and activity.
"”Krishnamurti
 
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Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Glad to see a fellow Buk fan reading Krishnamurti. I've read most of his books in my youth. Still have many of his books on my shelves. Highly recommended reading...
 
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"Don't use your imagination. Watch porn."
revised graffiti in the Balkans

Hey, Bukfan . . . glad to know you stock your shelves with only the best. Continued good reading"”and living"”now and forever....Apropos of the good life, I just got back from seeing "A Good Year", about the beauty of the simple but eternal pleasures of life, and the critics can go do themselves: I loved every minute of it, and am sitting here with a nice Merlot and savoring the afterglow. Then your good post. Life is good.

Bottoms up . . . . Poptop

The truth is that the great man, almost without
exception, finds his most constant and most loyal
supporters among women. Women have a peculiar
weakness for the best and for the worst of men. It
is mediocrity that leaves them cold.
"”Frank Harris, Confessions
 
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Brother Schenker

Founding member
Glad to see a fellow Buk fan reading Krishnamurti. I've read most of his books in my youth. Still have many of his books on my shelves. Highly recommended reading...

J. Krishnamurti---I enjoyed his books when I was in my 20s but eventually got fed up with them. I redd a bio on him published in the late 1990s which showed him up to be the guru-ic hypocrite he actually was (among the included assertions was a 25 year long sexual affair with a married woman).

But then, a couple years ago while surfing the web for bio info about JK, I ran into info about this fellow named U.G. Krishnamurti. Talk about a mindblowing dude. His words/conclusions will turn your mind into squirming eels & jellyfish!

I'm not a fan of anyone's philosophical or cosmological work except my own, but if you're still developing & realizing your own philosophical paradigm, then I highly recommend U.G. Krishnamurti. There are tons of videos & audio clips & free text downloads of his works online. But be careful. His stuff will truly twist your brain into knots---and yet it touches something non-verbal within you...

U.G. knew and interacted with Jiddu. He tried to believe and understand Jiddu but ended up concluding that he was basically a con artist leading the reader down a path with the promise of a reward that never arrives.
 
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Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
J. Krishnamurti---I enjoyed his books when I was in my 20s but eventually got fed up with them. I redd a bio on him published in the late 1990s which showed him up to be the guru-ic hypocrite he actually was (among the included assertions was a 25 year long sexual affair with a married woman).
Do you remember the name of the book and the author? Was it an anti-Krishnamurti book or was it a "legit" biography? I'm curious because I have never heard anything negative about K , and certainly not that he should be a con artist! But some people are put off because he refuse to be yet another guru and to offer a system for people to follow. If he had flaws in his personal make up, it does'nt diminish his "teachings" in my view. Even a genius can be flawed (think of Buk). K never claimed to be some otherworldly christ-like being.
Funny that you should mention U.G. Krishnamurti. I stumbled across him just last week on Google video when I was looking for clips with Jiddu Krishnamurti...
 
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Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Ok, so let's close down all charity organizations who help the needy ;)
-Endless quotes? - Thank God for the scrolling option :)
 
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Brother Schenker

Founding member
Do you remember the name of the book and the author? Was it an anti-Krishnamurti book or was it a "legit" biography?

Lives in the Shadow with J. Krishnamurti, Radha Rajagopal Sloss

Not a bio, really. A secondhand memoir of sorts. Those closest to him, if they wrote books, wrote only flowery, reverential bullshit. This one is not anti-krishnamurti, it's just offering some pieces of info that help you to see that his feet really did touch the ground when he walked.
 
A Few Thoughts On Krishnamurti

I originally posted a quote on this newsgroup from the teachings of Jiddu Krishnamurti because I felt that Bukowski's perception of the world"”his ability to embrace whatever was going on at the time"”was very much in keeping with the "choiceless awareness" that "K" talked about for over 60 years. There are similarities of viewpoint between great men, and I've included in this post a quote by K. on sex that might be of interest to even a Bukowski reader.

And since the subject of who Krishnamurti was has taken an interesting turn of events, and come up with Brother Schenker, Bukfan, and myself, I'm posting some specific resources on his controversial love life, all of which will mean nothing to anyone who has no idea who Krishnamurti was"”a man of wisdom who went into the root causes of why Man was destroying himself, and who also happened to be a poet and one hell of a writer. His personal journals are fantastic, and there were no erasures in the original manuscripts.

Then I'm dropping the matter out of deference to the intentions of this newsgroup, in order to maintain its overall harmony, and others can carry on with themselves if they wish to, or contact me privately. I have a wide range of in-depth interests in life, and the 80 years worth of teachings by this man are among them. I have every biography written, including the one by Sidney Field, called The Reluctant Messiah, who knew him for over 50 years"”recommended.

There are two books that go into K's relationship, and his so-called fall from grace, with the Rajagopals, including his affair with Rosalind: Lives in the Shadows by Radha Rajagopal Sloss (against), mentioned by Brother Schenker; and Krishnamurti and the Rajagopals by Mary Lutyens (supportive). Out of these many biographical accounts of Krishnamurti's life, the Sloss book is the only one that trashes him.

After looking at both sides of K's love affair with Rosalind Rajagopal, Sloss's mother, my personal feeling is that the worst mistake he ever made was to hire Rajagopal and eventually get emotionally involved with him and his family"”an event which occurred after K's trusted brother Nitya unexpectedly died and someone needed to step in to handle K's publishing and business affairs"”a terrible mistake in judgment on K's part. Eventually Rajagopal and K entered into a long legal battle over the publishing rights to K's teaching, with R's position being that he felt he had a right to them because K. had given R. carte blanche to handle K's business affairs thirty years before. The matter got ugly but was finally settled out of court... And as far as K. being a "con artist," he had every luxury pushed upon him from the time he was discovered at a young age on a beach in India, and refused most of it over the years so he would be free to travel and teach. Plus, I do not share the view that K cheated by projecting a false image of chastity. Those who have read his books and talks in detail will find no assessment supporting that view. On the subject of sexual relations, he said:

"So-called holy men have maintained that you cannot come near to God if you indulge in sex, therefore they push it aside although they are eaten up with it. But by denying sexuality they put out their eyes and cut out their tongues for they deny the whole beauty of the earth. They have starved their hearts and minds; they are dehydrated human beings; they have banished beauty because beauty is associated with woman." Even Bukowski might have agreed.

For me, the question is not whether K was a perfect being but to see whether the teachings work in real life or not. That's an individual decision, because I feel that our work in life is not about changing others, but changing ourselves. No man has ever led me to systematically question myself and the fundamental issues of life and death as deeply as he has. . . I also find it of interest that literary icon Henry Miller"”"Gandhi with a penis" according to some"”said, "there is no man living whom I would consider it a greater privilege to meet than he. . . . His career, unique in the history of spiritual leaders, reminds one of the famous Gilgamesh epic. Hailed in his youth as the coming Savior, Krishnamurti renounced the role that was prepared for him, spurned all disciples, rejected all mentors and preceptors. He initiated no new faith or dogma, questioned everything, cultivated doubt (especially in moments of exaltation), and by dint of heroic struggle and perseverance, freed himself of illusion and enchantment, of pride, vanity, and every subtle form of domination over others. . . . Krishnamurti has renounced more than any man I can think of except Christ. . . . He liberated his soul, so to say, from the underworld and the overworld, thus opening to it 'the paradise of heroes.'" Yeah, baby.

Best wishes to all . . . . Poptop
 
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Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Thanks, Brother Schenker and poptop. I will try and find these book titles.

poptop: thank you for your very interesting post! I've been reading K since the late sixties and he's had a deep impact on my thinking and perception of the world for the reasons you mention in the end of your post.
I only have two K bios, "The years of awakening" and "The years of fulfilment" , both by Mary Lutyens. In the latter the Rajagopal publishing conflict is very well described.
If anybody should be interested or curious about K, then there's lots of speeches and dialogues by K on Google Video. Just type in "Jiddu Krishnamurti" in the search engine.
Well, enough of K - back to Buk...:)
 
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"So-called holy men have maintained that you cannot come near to God if you indulge in sex, therefore they push it aside although they are eaten up with it. But by denying sexuality they put out their eyes and cut out their tongues for they deny the whole beauty of the earth. They have starved their hearts and minds; they are dehydrated human beings; they have banished beauty because beauty is associated with woman."

I find the last sentence lacks in logic.
There can also be beauty in everything else.
Man,"things",thoughts can also have beauty,maybe its that most woman genetically seek security(which doesnt really exist)and support and Truthseeking men, well, at least before they get famous(and wealthy) mostly didnt find much support in woman regarding their search and love for truth.
So they maybe banned woman and with them sex from their lives,if they were strong (or just angry)enough,but that doesnt necessarily mean you also have to ban beauty.
 
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