taste in music as it relates to bukowski (1 Viewer)

i love a lotta stuff, old soul, reggae, old punk, lots more

but i think it's old punk that has the bukowski link

i certainly don't think the man himself would have tolerated it for a second, but in terms of short, sparse, straight, simple arrangement and delivery, there is a common theme there structurally. wordwise punk lyrics can deliver an idea in a way that could not be distilled further, often taking something ugly, unpleasant or embarassing and announcing it loud and clear, sometimes with humor, sometimes to be disgusting and antagonize, and sometimes in anger.

"i wanna fuck somebody"
"i don't know what to do with my life"
"love comes in spurts"
"now i wanna sniff some glue"

etc
 
Ok.
But I have different expectations for music.
Something that presents itself as poetry is taken in as such.
Music (and the lyrics therein) have a different set of criteria for judgment for me. The lyrics that you note seem puerile and immature to me (out of context - for sure). Petulant and childish.
Neither the lyrics nor music stand up.
For me.
 
but i think it's old punk that has the bukowski link


"i wanna fuck somebody"
"i don't know what to do with my life"
"love comes in spurts"
"now i wanna sniff some glue"

Looking at the list above are you talking Punk or Rap?
Most of the "punk " I listened to and the reason I did was because it had a social context..and one hell of a groove.

I agree that if you are already enjoying participating in a culture outside the mainstream then there is more of a possibility that you will gravitate and be encouraged to explore other artists percived to also be on that fringe.

But here is where I think Buk's individuality shines.
Buk was if not anti hippie, anti hippie bandwagon bullshit when it was a popular (see Ginsburg).

From my perspective a room full of leather jackets and safety pins does not make a room full of rebels/punks (look how diferent we are together) but if one guy in that room is wearing a suit and tie then he is the rebel/punk he is the guy (I think) Buk would want to have a drink with.
 
I think you can find common ground between Bukowski and old school punk, but maybe in a slightly different way than you're going.

Punk was born of a very DIY ethos, something that hadn't been seen in the culture (business) of pop music before. The first bands that played CBGB in New York actually picked up saws and hammers and built the stage there. To do a tour in the late 70's/early 80's you had to be tapped in to an underground of tiny local zines and like-minded people in order to find venues, places to stay and promotion for the shows. That DIY approach can certainly be seen in many of the literary magazines of the 60's, and for sure in Bukowski's early books, which were little more than pamphlets published by one-man operations, and funded by the publishers and Bukowski himself.

As far as what Bukowski wrote, Joe Strummer once said, "Punk rock is an attitude, and the essence of the attitude is, 'give us some truth.'" I think you can say the same thing about Bukowski's poetry, and it is one of the things that set him apart early on. Truth and reality presented outside the status quo. He was different and you had to pay attention to him, love him or hate him. Just like punk.
 
hey kids,
sure, there IS a link to Punk! - and sure, it has to do less with Music than with Attitude.
(and sure Buk would Not have lost even ONE thought on Punk-Music. - I, personally, DO like Punk-Rock, btw.)

so now, to Add something to the topic:
The last interview with Buk (according to offical records) was done by a German named Gundolf S. Freyermuth, together with Michael Montfort to picture it. Out of this came a fine book: 'Das war's. Letzte Worte mit Charles Bukowski', which is out of print now. (though there seems to be an ENGLISH version still available, but with-out the photographs. This is just a rumor in G., so I don't bet on it. - The title in English wouldbe like 'That's it. Last words with Charles Bukowski'.)

In this book, Freyermuth quotes another author (who's quite famous in Germany), named Maxim Biller on the subject of BUKOWSKI:
"He was THE FIRST PUNK, he was our Sid Vicious." '
(- my translation. Original: "Er war der erste Punk, er war unser Sid Vicious." p.99)

and later in this book, Freyermuth quotes one journalist, Suzanne Lummis:
"Bukowski was 'political incorrect' way before some semi-talented radio-stars made a big thing out of this. [...] He wore 'grunge-look' way before some band from Seattle made this a 'Fashion'."
(- again my own translation. Original: "Bukowski war 'politisch inkorrekt', lange bevor irgendwelche halbtalentierten Radiostars das zur wilden Sache machten. [...] Er kleidete sich im 'grunge look', lange bevor eine Band aus Seattle das zur Mode machte." p.116f)

- hope all this was of use. or at least of some interest.
 
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so now, to Add something to the topic:
The last interview with Buk (according to offical records) was done by a German named Gundolf S. Freyermuth, together with Michael Montfort to picture it. Out of this came a fine book: 'Das war's. Letzte Worte mit Charles Bukowski', which is out of print now. (though there seems to be an ENGLISH version still available, but with-out the photographs. This is just a rumor in G., so I don't bet on it. - The title in English wouldbe like 'That's it. Last words with Charles Bukowski'.)
That's It was published by a print-on-demand joint called Xlibris. Looks like it's still available:

http://www2.xlibris.com/bookstore/bookdisplay.asp?bookid=2028

Here's the back cover:

thatsit.jpg



The German version, Das war's is worth tracking down for the photos (many you've seen before, but some may be new to you), but as Roni said, it's out of print, so the prices may be steep. Bear in mind when deciding whether to buy that the photos are all reproduced in black and white, and only some of them on coated (glossy) paper.
 
By the way the docu from John Dullaghan "Born into this" was published under
the title "Bukowski: Old Punk" in Japan.
 
He definitely had the Punk attitude, but I think he carried it in a way more closely related to The Velvet Underground and Lou Reed. He would take the normal everyday things and turn them so that you could see the seething underbelly.
 
...he carried it in a way more closely related to The Velvet Underground and Lou Reed. He would take the normal everyday things and turn them so that you could see the seething underbelly.

and of course, some of the Lou Reed - solo albums (like 'Take No Prisoners', 'The Blue Mask', 'Legendary Hearts', 'New York') go VERY well with reading him in dark desperate nights!

p.s. to my translations some lines above:
In 'Sunlight Here I Am', there's a short part of that English version of the book (p.280-282 in 'Sunlight' reprinting p. 82-84 of 'That's it').
One of the quotes I mentioned is there. Guess this version has been transated by Freyermuth himself. Here it is:
"Charles Bukowski was politically incorrect, before some thinly talented radio personality made it the rage. [...] He sported the grunge look before a Seattle band set the fashion."
 
He sported the grunge look before a Seattle band set the fashion

Wow! So, he is reponse for the millions of cloning conforming-non-conforming youngsters, who revel in a culture of booze bitches and drugs, who couldn't give a fuck, have little or no concentration, who simply do not give a fuck and don't know why....

God: we have been Blessed.

Kurt Cobain used to read Bukowski: look how they inspire generals of Youth to be miserable, sour faced pricks! What a job they done!
 
First I would have to learn what "nu-rave" is. But something tells me I could go the rest of my life without knowing what it is and still manage to die a happy man. I could be wrong, but it's a chance I'm willing to take.
 
Try this....

After reading all of these posts regarding punk and attitude etc. at least some of you admit that it is music that Buk probably would have hated - personally - though he MAY have appreciated it's place in music history. Or not. Who knows what he would have said. -- But my bigger point is this: if you want to understand Buk to some extent thru music, then listen to the music HE listened to - what inspired him to write as he listened on some shitty little radio in his crapped out room in LA: Mahler, Brahms etc. When you stumble upon a composer in one of his books - check it out, get drunk and listen. Will you agree with him? Fuck no, probably not - or maybe you will. I think his opinions of many of the composers is dead on -but that's just me. For some reason, he loved the Romantics - huge orchestras, big sound, deep emotion, music of life and deep death. I always thought his writing reflected jazz....but I don't think so. It's a puzzle. You probably have done something like that when he mentioned another author: run out and read the books that Buk thought were worth reading. Remember, too, he read a SHITLOAD of books as a kid by all the "traditional" authors - some he liked, some he didn't - doesn't matter: it's what made him tick. Rather than impose todays music on him - see if you can impose some of what moved him to write onto you. I think that's a hell of a lot more fun.
 
Rather than impose todays music on him - see if you can impose some of what moved him to write onto you. I think that's a hell of a lot more fun.

you said that so much better than what was in my head.

i have been following this post since it started and while i can appreciate the correlation between artists and their works, i do not enjoy clumping individuals into groups. perhaps it stems from working in a junior high where i watch individual square pegs try day after day to fit into round holes. buk was buk. why should he be anything or anyone other than that? why do we feel the need to develop associations between him and specific genres of music/lit/art/etc.?

i am analytical to a point. but i try not to be too analytical of art. the magic fizzles when you open it up and classify it.
 
Charles played bass in Black Flag under the name Chuck Dukowski and later was replaced by Allen Ginsberg for the Combat Rock album by the Clash.
 
After reading all of these posts regarding punk and attitude etc. at least some of you admit that it is music that Buk probably would have hated - personally - though he MAY have appreciated it's place in music history. Or not.

Interesting post - thanks!
Especially the jazz/Buk link... for me - the nature of improvisation/cliché, art/craft, inspiration/tools - re Buk is an interesting topic.

But on the punk thing... "music history" etc - that's the problem - punk doesn't relate to music history in any meaningful way - punk was a sociological phenomenon, not a musical one.
 
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I think Bukowski's style has a lot in common with punk, both were so called unskilled, uneducated forms of expression, feeling over skill etc.

And about punk not having any "meaningfull" effect on music history, well, that's subjective but I think the influence of punk on grunge music to newer punk bands is obvious. And the lyric content changed the way lyrics have been written since then, pretty much knocked out the abstract lyric writing that was so common then and introduced irony and sarcasm that was scarce until then.

I don't like hippie rock like the Greatful Dead or mellow singer/songwriter stuff like James Taylor but it would be false for me not to acknowledge their influence and importance in music history.
 

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