The Fermi paradox (a.k.a. Where all the aliens at?) (1 Viewer)

This next decade will see more answers, with astrophysicists etc. finally getting lucky! The new James Webb Space Telescope which will, supercede Hubble ( ps, some beautiful photos on NASA's website for Hubble's 25th birthday).
But it's only really through Hubble and Keplar space observatory that they now know as fact that every star you look up at has at least one planet, difficulty is seeing the little faint tiny objects against their star, but that is being overcome with starlight shields for space telescopes, to view the planets better (exoplanets that is).

Are there other little blue dots out there? Yes, have to be.But do we want to find them, we seem to swither between our fear of being alone and wanting to be sociable, to the stranger danger terror of invasion by big tin men, or Donald Sutherland - even scarier.
This next decade will see more answers...
And I suspect that those answers will point more and more toward us being alone. In the galaxy if not the entire universe. If we ever do "discover life" elsewhere it will likely be microbial and therefore not much in the way of a new friend.

One of the interesting points that (first) video makes is that if a society was advanced enough to get past the point of self destruction they would have probably been around long enough - and be sufficiently in control of this galaxy - to have contacted us already. Unless they are simply waiting for the perfect time to exterminate us.

It's very self-centeredly human to assume that any advanced form of life out there in the universe would even look like us. The little green (or grey) men with the enlarged heads to hold their super brains. It's such an unimaginative 1950s view of things. I doubt we'd even recognize another civilization if it was standing - or pooling, or floating - right in front of us. We can't even admit that we're heating up the Earth's atmosphere.

It's also unimaginative to believe that another civilization would somehow help us with some advanced technology or knowledge. People who really believe things like that are just like people who believe in the bible or some other scriptures, looking to the sky for answers to questions that have no answers. Waiting for daddy to come lay down the rules that will make everything better. That kind of magical thinking is what allows the there-is-no-such-thing-as-climate-change crowd to seem rational and believable to a lot of people.

No one is coming. To save us or exterminate us.

And why the hell would you want them to? It couldn't end well, methinks.
great. there goes our only chance for the "next bukowski"...

Well, this may be the only in the Milky Way, but who knows about the rest of the universe:wb:.

And I suspect that those answers will point more and more toward us being alone. In the galaxy if not the entire universe. If we ever do "discover life" elsewhere it will likely be microbial and therefore not much in the way of a new friend.
As for intelligent life,yes we probably are on our own in this galaxy, but we will find biological organisms on the 20 billion earth like planets here.
As soon as life can form on a planet - it does, but it needs liquid water, carbon based molecules and an energy source compatible, not too hot, or too cold (and that might not always be the case, either).

As to the entire universe; infinite? with it's 300 billion galaxies (give or take) there ought to be intelligent life elsewhere given the life forming matter that kicked things off here with the early comet bombardments, also occurred elsewhere.
Why do we want to poke our noses in - because that's what we do, for better or worse it's not really about finding a big daddy or a savior.
life [...] needs liquid water, carbon based molecules and an energy source...
Life as we know it needs those things. That's what I mean when I say we assume "life" always has to mimic what we consider to be "life." And again why we may not even have the ability to recognize an other or new kind of "life."
it's not really about finding a big daddy or a savior.
Not for scientists, no. I was talking about the UFO kooks. They are the ones looking for a savior.

It's a good thing no one or no thing is coming here to Earth anyway. Think about it. Most of the people in "developed" countries don't even like human immigrants.
Here's a compelling sign of intelligent life: that they don't come here!

But seriously folks: if there is, or if there isn' won't matter. Unless something drops right in our proverbial lap, we won't be able to go find it, and even if we did, we couldn't get to it...and then even if we did, 20% of the people would scream at the top of their lungs on every talk radio show about how it's not real anyway.

That's IF we are really real...and not just random pulses of bio-electricity rippling through the tainted meat of the organism we are actually contained within all while deluding ourselves that we're experiencing consciouness subjectively and excercising some kind of control or free will!

Now's the part where Keanu Reeves says "whoa." (At least in my little corner of the tainted meat)
We will find life before we find intelligent life. Thats good enough for me cause that blows the biblical version to shit-not that facts or a few thousand dinosaur bones ever made a difference to creationists in Kansas
They'll just say that some part of the bible prophesied the alien life and use that new attribution to further "prove" the divinity of the book. You can't trick them.
I'm waiting for our inter-dimensional dinosaur masters to come flying out of the volcanoes in their gigantic crystalline space arks and tell us that they turned the universe inside out just for a laugh and now they're going to vaporise us all with their lucasfilm-style laser blasters because we've been boring them for the last 2000 years or so and frankly eating us would be too much of a chore.
this thread now has it's own theme song - in case you're wondering how it would all go down...

btw this tune alone makes the human race worthy of total alien annihilation...
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Gah; I'm a scientist to put food on the table. I don't believe in anything, although if I can convince myself on where to stand on a particular issue, I just might do it. I'm not sanctimonious nor ignorant. I'm a lefty with no agenda other than to state that Mingus is better than Scott Thunes (but not that much better). I think global warming will happen anyway, but I also think that we'd be retarded to do nothing. For some reason, there's dissention on this issue. Not because it's right or wrong, but because one side makes you X vs. Y. Stupidity defined.
They'll just say that some part of the bible prophesied the alien life and use that new attribution to further "prove" the divinity of the book. You can't trick them.

Too true. Only God can. Bill Hicks does a bit where he asks why there is no mention of dinosaurs in the bible. The response: "God put them there to test our faith." To which Bill said "I think he put you here to test my faith."

As for global warming: Why don't the doubters just have faith that it could be true? I mean, they don't want to go to the afterlife not believing...just in why not just believe that global warming could be true...just in case?

What's the downside?
"Oh, turns out the planet's just going through a little recalibration...oops, our bad! Everything's fine!"

Isn't that better than: "Oops, we've ruined a planet we can't escape...our bad!"

It's like setting your house on fire just to find out if it's flammable.
I think global warming will happen anyway, but I also think that we'd be retarded to do nothing. For some reason, there's dissention on this issue. Not because it's right or wrong, but because one side makes you X vs. Y. Stupidity defined.

Two words - mendacity.Governments are aware of the reports, but there is an information war going on and ultimately it will come down to significant changes in our lifestyles in the developed world and maybe we love our cars more than the planet.
maybe we love our cars more than the planet
Of course we do.
Alternative technologies have long been available, but governments (= the oil industry) are not really interested in a change. As long as oil production or anything else is profitable, we will exploit the resources. Nobody cares about consequences or long-term effects. And that's why the existence of humans on this planet will only be temporary. Too dumb, too greedy.
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Of course we do.
Alternative technologies have long been available, but governments (= the oil industry) are not really interested in a change...]
More damaging than that it's active disinformation and muddying of the bulk scientific evidence:

Between 2002 and 2010, conservative billionaires secretly donated nearly $120 million (£77 million) via two trusts (Donors Trust and Donors Capital Fund) to more than 100 organizations seeking to cast doubt on the science behind climate change.[19]

This is a quote from the tobacco industry but weirdly enough, their methods are the same.
"Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the "body of fact" that exists in the mind of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy."[35] As the 1990s progressed ... TASSC began receiving donations from Exxon (among other oil companies) and its "junk science" website began to carry material attacking climate change science.
Clive Hamilton, Requiem for a Species: Why We Resist the Truth about Climate Change
I've been following this thread closely, and so far have understood virtually nothing, except the part where Bill Hicks and a dinosaur smoked a Winston Light with Jesus on Enrico Fermi' s yacht. Good stuff!
BTW, what's the meaning of life?
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"They're made out of meat."


"Meat. They're made out of meat."


"There's no doubt about it. We picked up several from different parts of the planet, took them aboard our recon vessels, and probed them all the way through. They're completely meat."

"That's impossible. What about the radio signals? The messages to the stars?"

"They use the radio waves to talk, but the signals don't come from them. The signals come from machines."

"So who made the machines? That's who we want to contact."

"They made the machines. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Meat made the machines."

"That's ridiculous. How can meat make a machine? You're asking me to believe in sentient meat."

"I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. These creatures are the only sentient race in that sector and they're made out of meat."

A little while later:

"They actually do talk, then. They use words, ideas, concepts?"

"Oh, yes. Except they do it with meat."

"I thought you just told me they used radio."

"They do, but what do you think is on the radio? Meat sounds. You know how when you slap or flap meat, it makes a noise? They talk by flapping their meat at each other. They can even sing by squirting air through their meat."

"Omigod. Singing meat. This is altogether too much. So what do you advise?"

"Officially or unofficially?"


"Officially, we are required to contact, welcome and log in any and all sentient races or multibeings in this quadrant of the Universe, without prejudice, fear or favor. Unofficially, I advise that we erase the records and forget the whole thing."

"I was hoping you would say that."

"It seems harsh, but there is a limit. Do we really want to make contact with meat?"

"I agree one hundred percent. What's there to say? 'Hello, meat. How's it going?'
Need a time-out to read through all those links...

Sorry Andreas! the only one I meant for reading was the Guardian one, about our downtrodden billionaires having to circle the wagons.
Honestly, I haven't read any books on climate change, but I do read what's in the press and on the internet, poor excuse really. But this is a bit interesting:
This piece looked at the published climate change denial books up to 2010, it's findings were; most of them from publishing houses had links to conservative think tanks, either by lay people of a conservative bent, or contrarian scientists whose books were not subject to peer review. Several prominent ones were linked to the petro-chemical industry, ditto self published ones.You just have to follow the money really, to see where the denial is coming from:

Not compulsory though:)
ahhh, some back up for the white conservative male, biggest deniers apparently, let's drill the shit out of everything.:wb:
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Well, okay...but I find it true that the damage humans inflict on each other pales to the damage done to nature.
I guess you pick your causes, and mine would be more people-centered than styro-foamcentric. Although some would argue that the two are inclusive.
So the question on the table is whether or not there is intelligent life in the universe. Are you fucking kidding me? What the hell is the matter with you people. That's right I said you people! Haven't you noticed the seven or eight TV shows that are on the air these days showing countless UFO encounters? You haven't noticed that dozens of websites that have hundreds of videos of all sorts of strange craft from other worlds flying around our atmosphere? Where are you guys hiding?

Whenever I see these totally 100% intellectual space physicist people talking about the slim odds of ever finding intelligent life in the universe I have to ask them if they have ever seen the ancient alien show. on this show you can see that there are places in South American jungles where 70 ton stones of perfect geometry are placed side-by-side with other 70 ton stones. do you think Indians that live in the woods and hunt wild boar with arrows in this modern time were the people who built those structures? no, of course not it was people from other worlds who used to live on earth. are you going to tell me you don't know about the Nazca lines in south America .

People go on and on about the fact that there is no physical proof of aliens. well if you could see top secret Naval documents you would find that they have dragged dozens of crashed UFOs out of the ocean. holy crap, what about the foo fighters of World War II . yo sports fans they were UFO's from other worlds. you just have to accept this. if you can't accept this then your mind is hard wired to be close minded to the fact that we are not alone in the universe.

what about crop circles? do you believe that that 1000' x 1000' crop circles that appear between 4 AM and 5 AM in pitch black dark are being put there by humans? no way! they are being put there by intelligent people from other worlds. you see I am a bit of an expert on all of this stuff having read countless books during a decade of intense knee pain. I have read five books on crop circles alone. those two English guys who made some crop circles back in the day are both dead. their Crop circles were tiny. there have been about three to 400 new crop circles each year in England.

earth is a planet that is a free will zone. we as humans have the right of free will. this is One of the most important parts about life on earth. therefore the aliens are not supposed to mess with us. you can see how strong the free will situation is because we are currently destroying the planet and the aliens are watching it happen and yet they can't intervene.

I could go on and on but I'll stop here. all I can tell you is that we don't have to worry about trying to find it alien life because we already have found alien life but our government is hell bent on not telling us about something that is all ready so obvious. the people from other worlds are looking at us every single day. somewhere On earth at just about every hour there is a human looking up and seeing a space craft from another world. in the past five years they have been showing themselves a lot because they are in the process of getting us ready for the time when they land and make full-blown global contact. I use to travel up to New York city to go Budd Hopkins meetings. He used to hypnotize people to help them realize that they have been being abducted by aliens. He was able to help these people get their lives back in order. I of course read all of his books and have them autographed as well.

feel free to attack me and call me insane. it won't bother me at all because I have seen images of thousands of crop circles that I know would be totally impossible for human beings to make. live long and prosper.
I though you were being sarcastic, right up until the end there.
our government is hell bent on not telling us...
What is the government? I mean, what does it consist of?

If you answer, "people," then your claims that "the government" is keeping such big secrets from all of us are unfounded. People could not keep something that big secret. "The government" is inept because people are inept. Inept and imperfect, and they can't keep their mouths shut.

You think crop circles are incredible and otherworldly because you can't make one. By that same logic, Penn & Teller must be aliens, because I've seen them do things that are totally impossible for you and I to do.

If it's all so obvious, then show us some proof. Not things you believe to be proof, actual proof. I'll wait right here.
Reading Al Fogel's The Switch last night,couldn't help laughing at a reference to Jon Martian, thought it was a typing error, but no, it's repeated,
I wonder if that was a Fogel or Bukowski thing.
mjp you ignorant slut. That has to sum up my argument to you. You are never going to understand. The reason you are never going to under stand is because in this lifetime your soul has you highly aligned with an egotistical mind set. You are 100% aligned with logical thinking within a third dimensional realm. Earth is a third dimensional realm. ET's that are more advanced than us live in the fifth dimensional realm. You and 97% of all humans are going to approach all problems from a human mind, human brain, standpoint. You are going to say the same tired things over and over again.

For instance you just said show me the proof . watch the show ancient aliens and read books and movies by Kurt Vonnegan (spelling) and hopefully your mind will be slowly opened. the a-number one proof of aliens from other worlds are the crop circles. this is a fact. if you choose to not except this fact then you are just going to be obstinate and you will never hear anything I say. go and talk to some of the people who have been abducted and they will show you pictures of puncture wounds and all sorts of surgical scars and things.

Since you are hell bent on not believing anything I say, nor what other people say it's really a losing effort on my part but I don't mind because I have had these sort of discussions before. the way it it works is whether or not your soul has the intention of having you "wake up" in this lifetime. it's perfectly okay if you don't wake up in this lifetime because that is the way it goes. so you, and many others will remain deeply entrenched in all of your ego driven third dimensional viewpoints which you will use to maintain a very limited view of the world and the universe .

what a lot of people don't know about crop circles, the real ones that is, is that they contain energy. when people walk inside the crop circle the batteries in their cell phones and cameras die instantly. even the people who have the big fancy TV cameras lose their power as soon as they enter the crop circle. so put that data into your bowl and smoke it up good.

crop circles made by people do not contain an energy field. this is how we know whether a crop circle was made by a silly little human or if it was made by some totally cool Arcturian from Arcturus. so when you say, Mr. mjp, that there is no proof of alien life I say to you there is your proof.

furthermore if a farmer drives out with his tractor and immediately cuts down all of the crop that was utilized in that crop circle that the energy still remains. that's right.....the energy from the crop circle still remains even after the farmer has chopped down the grain. I won't go into how the super cool space people make the crop circles because I have to do my special daily meditations and chants with my crystals in order to turn into an orb and float up into the atmosphere. ( I'm kidding about that last part)

you say there is no proof about alien life in the universe and I say you must be deaf, dumb, and blind because by this point England and France have released their top-secret UFO files. it's all there on the Internet.

Penn and Teller are not aliens. everybody knows our US govt is hell bent on not revealing anything about aliens and UFO's. Our Joint Chiefs still can't accept the fact that we don't have air superiority. talk about minds that are stuck in the third dimensional realm.
you say there is no proof about alien life in the universe
I don't say there's no proof, I observe the fact that there is no proof. Because there isn't. Your "proof" is TV shows and books and a bunch of people saying it's so. That's not proof of anything except other people's beliefs.

But let's pretend for a minute that you're right and I'm wrong.

So what?

How does believing what you believe change anything? Explain what your advantage is over me in this life here on earth right now. Name one advantage, personal or societal, that your enlightenment provides.
Danny Mac is right on brah! I've totally had alien encounters, hunnerd percent and I can tell you it's real, man, it's all realer than real. I walked into a crop circle at Bonnaroo 2008 and I lost two days of time. when I walked out it was two days later no joke! and this one guy who used to work on my bike said he got the alien butt probe and he seemed pretty serious and he told me in secret that he kinda wanted them to come back and do it again LOL! takes all kinds man right? you know what I'm sayin? but I can see his point if I'm bein honest.

they don't come down and like go on TV or whatever because look how you're being brah. they don't need to hassle with all that all of you who are gonna ask them too many questions. they like people who dont' ask a lot of questions.

I can tell you the advantage man, are you crazy? the advantage is I'M PREPARED! I know what the future looks like brah, hunnerd percent and when they come they're gonna know me and it's not going to go as good for the rest of you. sorry man, THE TRUTH IS THE TRUTH know what I'm sayin?

keep up the fight Danny Mac your on the right side of this one and history gonna prove your right. REAL SOON!!!

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