Twice divorced by 1960?

cirerita

Founding member
Over 1000 posts
#1
Whether B. was married to Jane C. Baker or not remains a mystery for sure, but here's yet another -literary- instance where their marriage seems a plausible scenario...

The excerpt below is from an undated poem with the Mariposa Ave. address. The handwriting is mine, not Bukowski's. I'm not even sure why I wrote 44 on top of what it seems to be "40".

Sorry about the crappy quality...

divorced.jpg
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
Over 5000 posts
#2
Is that a carbon copy? Is that why type is missing like that?

By the way, was the life insurance still good when he died? Just asking a bunch of questions.

Thanks for the post.
 

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
Over 1000 posts
#3
Whether he was legally married to Jane or not, it seems to me that he saw it as such.

Thanks Abel, for posting something new!
 

mjp

Keep my good eye on the beat
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#4
A "success (or complacency) has spoiled me" poem circa 1960-61! That's pretty funny. He is writing that from a place of success and satisfaction, and basically saying he was only "alive" before he had it so good. At least that's the impression from these few lines. Funny, since 20 years later he would consider himself to be more "alive" at the time he wrote this. I suppose that window continues to shift as we get older.

I like the last two lines of that clip.
 

Stavrogin

Over 1000 posts
#5
Like the irony in having it so good. He equated comfort with creative death. Though he found later in life that comfort couldn't do shit to his creativity. Thanks, cirerita, for posting this.
 

cirerita

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Over 1000 posts
#6
That excerpt is from a poem titled "Poetry the Hard Way", where B. recalls the infamous Atlanta suicide "attempt" (almost touching the light cord with his bare hand).

There was a batch of xerox copies that were poorly done at UCSB. I think the toner was almost finished and that's why there are some white "stripes" where the type is missing.
 

Johannes

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Over 1000 posts
#7
That excerpt is from a poem titled "Poetry the Hard Way", where B. recalls the infamous Atlanta suicide "attempt" (almost touching the light cord with his bare hand).
I don't know how often he recalls that 'Atlanta cardboard shack' in his letters and poems and stories and what. It must be one of his most often told anecdotes from 1960 - 1993.
 

james

Over 1000 posts
#8
thanks much for posting cirerita. your contributions here are always top notch...you are a special breed, my friend...
 

Stavrogin

Over 1000 posts
#9
That excerpt is from a poem titled "Poetry the Hard Way", where B. recalls the infamous Atlanta suicide "attempt" (almost touching the light cord with his bare hand).

There was a batch of xerox copies that were poorly done at UCSB. I think the toner was almost finished and that's why there are some white "stripes" where the type is missing.
Very late 50s to very early 60s I'm finding (as my reading progresses) Buk's make it or break it attitude as a writer (how well we know it now the outcome). Now we know he was on the verge of greatness in the later 60s but poetry from this period reveals self-reproach. Lucky for us he kept the shovel full and he kept digging deeper. Fuck anyone who ever accuses Buk of being lazy. I seriously doubt there was a ever a writer you beaded up sweat more than Buk when bent over the typer.
 

james

Over 1000 posts
#10
to quit your job at 50 at the promise of monies that you may never actually see...well, don't try. do. that's what he did. he went for it. that takes guts. hell no he wasn't lazy. far from it. submitting to the littles as long as he did, then going for it with the black sparrow. of course we know now how successful it is, but he had no idea at the time...
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Over 5000 posts
#14
Twice divorced? Maybe he was thinking of Barbara Fry and Jane (whether they were married for real or not).

Interesting stuff! Thanks, cirerita...
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Over 5000 posts
#15
California apparently does not recognize common law marriage, so either:

a) Bukowski referred to Jane as his wife possibly because it was too taboo to admit to living with a woman out of wedlock in the mid-50's.

2) they were actually married.

III) He referred to her as his wife out of habit. I believe that he also called FrancEye his wife at times? I know that FrancEye did go by the name Frances Bukowski, but have never heard of Jane going by the name Jane Bukowski.

If anyone can find the marriage certificate/divorce certificate, it is Abel.

Bill
 

Johannes

Founding member
Over 1000 posts
#16
I think it is III). Tho we'll probably never know.

He even dedicated Cold Dogs in the Courtyard to 'Frances Bukowski'.
 

mjp

Keep my good eye on the beat
Moderator
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Over 5000 posts
#17
Referring to someone as your "wife" is one thing, saying you were divorced from them is quite another. He never claimed to be divorced from Frances Smith, so that doesn't really fit.

I always based my ridiculous (according to Uncle Howie) assertion the he and Jane were married on the information in the FBI files. You could maintain, "Well, he had to say that, because it was the '50s...", that's reasonable. But the multiple references to divorce that we're seeing here put a whole new spin on it, and give the possible marriage more credence.
 

Johannes

Founding member
Over 1000 posts
#18
Yeah, that's a plausible argument on the other side.

As we said before somewhere; you would think that one wouldn't want to fuck with the FBI concerning these things either.

It's strange.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Over 5000 posts
#19
i guess that if he married Jane and if he divorced her, there are records, but not necessarily public records. Are divorce records made public?

It seems that if they are, then it would be somewhat easy to go to the courthouse in LA and find out.

Bill
 

cirerita

Founding member
Over 1000 posts
#20
Believe it or not, the whole was-Bukowski-ever-married-to-Jane? thing does not really interest me that much. I never ever looked for any evidence in this regard when I was at the libraries with Bukowski collections. It is now, going over the MSS poems for the never-fucking-ending bio-bibliography, that I'm finding these little tidbits. So there might be a divorce or marriage certificate of sorts buried in those collections, though I doubt it.
 

roni

Over 5000 posts
#21
Yeah, it sure is a hell of a difference to call a woman you live with your "wife" or talk about "divorce". Till now, I was very suspicious about mjp's find in the FBI-files. He wasn't able to convince me of the marriage to Jane. But that "divorce"-statement is a very strong hint.


btw, 'Poetry the Hard Way' is a fuckin' great title.
 
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