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Uncorrected Proof... $95? (1 Viewer)

LickTheStar

Sad Flower in the Sand
Now... maybe I just don't understand how rare items work (in fact, I'm fairly sure I don't have, in the least, any idea how the rare book world works), but... $95 seems awfully high for an unsigned item that Bukowski never even touched in his lifetime...

http://www.powells.com/biblio/1-9781141779420-0

Is this a common sort of price? I know Powells has had several at that price. I myself don't see the collectibility in these items, but perhaps some of you who have been collecting items longer can shed some light on this whole deal.

Oh and I popped in yesterday and flipped through the Dear Mr Bukowski they have in the Rare Book Room and it IS beautiful. But I don't know about $375... TOo far out of my range anyhow.
 
I'm not sure how many of these were made (it varied from book to book), and that plays a big part in value. I've seen other uncorrected proofs for sale for $100-$150, so this price is comparable (although I agree, they're rather pricey for what they are). My proof of Hollywood was $50, and I probabaly overpaid a bit for that. It's not in comb-binding; rather just in wraps. I think that there were a large number of Hollywood proofs; hence the lower value.

Also, remember that Buk did not handle the called-for signed editions (he signed stacks of paper only for those), so even those weren't held by him (if that matters to you).
 
Also, remember that Buk did not handle the called-for signed editions (he signed stacks of paper only for those), so even those weren't held by him (if that matters to you).

Very good point. All that bound in business.

I'm just unsure of what really makes an uncorrected proof valuable. Just the rarity? To me it just seems strange. The proofs are what is contained in the book, right?
 
Hi LTS,
Some of these are worth more than others. On this title, there seem to be a bunch out there. There are some that are numbered 1/3 or 1/10 and signed by John Martin. I saw one copy of the first book of letters (1/3) sell for $750 from Simon Finch. This then showed up on ebay for a buy it now of around $100. It was obvious that they were copies, especially after the seller told me that they were authentic because he made the copies himself. He was asked to cease making copies and selling them. He agreed and then the next week did another one. Once the buyer was notified, they contacted the seller and backed out of the deal.

Original, short run with poems that were removed from the final would be more valuable (Especially if numbered and signed by the editor). This one at Powell's could be 1 of 200 for all I know. Still $95 is probably fair EXCEPT....

How do you know that it is not just a xerox of the original? It is so easy to xerox and comb bind one of these. People have tried this before on ebay only to get shut down. I'm not saying that Powell's has any way of knowing if it is real and I am sure that if they knew that it was not real, they wold not carry it (they are good people), but I'm not sure how many experts on this forum (myself included) could tell if it is authentic, or a copy. I guess a lot would depend on what that review slip looked like. If it is a xerox then I would say that it is impossible to tell. If it is professionally printed on nice paper then it could be real.

Bill
 
I saw one copy of the first book of letters (1/3) sell for $750 from Simon Finch. This then showed up on ebay for a buy it now of around $100.

This is about 4 or 5 years ago, right? I think that I was the first to buy one of these on ebay as an original (for $50.00 if memory serves) only to see the same seller listing another copy as original about 3 weeks later... then another and another. The sheets weren't bound but loose.

How do you know that it is not just a xerox of the original? ... I guess a lot would depend on what that review slip looked like. If it is a xerox then I would say that it is impossible to tell. If it is professionally printed on nice paper then it could be real.

These comb-bound proofs are in-house proofs used for review and corrections. I believe that they are all Xerox copies. Without Martin's numbering and initials it would be pretty much impossible to tell if they were legit.
 
This is about 4 or 5 years ago, right? I think that I was the first to buy one of these on ebay as an original (for $50.00 if memory serves) only to see the same seller listing another copy as original about 3 weeks later... then another and another. The sheets weren't bound but loose.

The seller in question listed the item once. It was immediately noticed as being fishy. I e-mailed the seller and asked about it. They then told me that they made the copies from the original. When they were told that they could be creating problems (legal) they immediately pulled the item and agreed to never sell them (and agreed to destroy all copies, by the way). A few weeks later they relisted it. This time it sold as a "Buy It Now". I e-mailed them again and they agreed for a second time to not sell them. I notified the buyer and the buyer backed out of the deal. As far as I know, they only tried to sell it twice. It may not have been the first book of letters, but it was one of the three books. I need to look and see if I can find the e-mails.

I know that it seems that I put my nose where it did not belong, but I saw it as fraud, although the seller did not see it the same way (and given their answer, I believe that they did not mean any harm). They thought that they were selling the book of letters as a book of letters (They had to know of this being a violation of copyright), where I saw it as selling a collectible that was in fact valueless as a collectible.

Best,
Bill
 
Hi,
I just found the e-mails. Kids - remember to never put anything damning in writing as it can stay around for a while.

To update the book, etc. It was Reach For the Sun. The copy 1 of 2 was bought for about $800. The copy was made and the signature and 1 of 2 were whited out on the copy. This is where the 10 copies came in. The seller listed these as "limited to only 10 numbered copies". Of course, they had made their own limited edition.

The buyer returned the book to the seller for a full refund....

Read the exchange below. I may be able to find out more e-mails as I remember the exchange going back and forth. These e-mails are from 12/9/2003. I removed the sellers name as I don't wanna get sued and he has not tried to sell them on ebay in the last 4 years.

Bill



From me to him:
Hi,
the two Bukowski items are not authentic. I'm not sure who informed you of their authenticity, but these are simply xerox copies of a rare item.
I could buy a rare item and make 1000 copies, but that would not make the copies rare. It is advisable to add to you listing to avoid being accused of defrauding a customer. Again, what you are offering is a forgery.

all best,
Bill

his reply:
In the description is SAYS COPY. And BTW it IS one of the 7-10 copies made at the time of publishing and I know that because I made it myself...
 
ha!!! he made them himself.
ok, so i'm xeroxing "20 tanks" and selling it in a very exclusive limited run of 10(hand #'d by me), and i'm only charging $100 a piece. any takers?
 
ha!!! he made them himself.
ok, so i'm xeroxing "20 tanks" and selling it in a very exclusive limited run of 10(hand #'d by me), and i'm only charging $100 a piece. any takers?

if you sign it i'll give you $150.
 

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