what do you guys make of this one? (1 Viewer)

chronic

old and in the way
It does look a little plain. Usually he signs either in all caps or with small flourishes. Still, I have no doubt that it's the real deal. As you said, everything else is fine.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
It is odd. Crumb is a perfectionist. I have never seen one like this. Still, I cannot imagine a reason that this would not have been signed by Crumb.

Bill
 
For whatever it may be worth, I have several R.Crumb signatures and not one of them has the letters of the last name separated like the jordan example. They all have connected script letters almost drawn in appearance. Also, the "C" has a double inward curl on all of the signatures I have as opposed to no "C" curl in the jordan signature. In addition the "R" is script not block on all of my samples. Crumb does use that awful silver colored ink for most of his signatures. Making it hard to read over time.

And by the way jordan, I have #224 of that edition.

This can't be comforting news.

But, I am NOT a definitive signature judge.
 

mjp

Founding member
Well, I haven't seen thousands of Crumb signatures either, but I've seen some, and I've never seen one like this. But I'd run it by Crumb experts to be sure. If only because the seller has 0 feedback and there is some question about the signature.
 
I have checked my copy of the book - 248 - and the signature is really different.

The R and C for his names are nicely looped and the 'b' at the end of Crumb is an open b not a closed b. I'm no expert but I would have thought something like that would be pretty consistent.

That said, the beauty of BSP books are their identification through coloured title page and in this case - the spine. If the spine is right - it would have to be a very elaborate fraud with the price not justifying the effort.

Good luck - crazy cheap at current price!!!!
 

ROC

It is what it is
For whatever it may be worth, I have several R.Crumb signatures and not one of them has the letters of the last name separated like the jordan example. They all have connected script letters almost drawn in appearance. Also, the "C" has a double inward curl on all of the signatures I have as opposed to no "C" curl in the jordan signature. In addition the "R" is script not block on all of my samples.

What he said. Exactly.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
The only possible explanation that I can think of is that someone got a copy at one point that only had Buk's signature in it. Maybe Crumb missed the page. Someone then may have added Crumb's to make it "right". If this is the case, they did a lousy job. The Buk looks perfect as does the spine, etc....

Still, given the issues, I would not pay much for it. You can never be sure that it is not a forgery. Unless a Crumb expert shows up and says that he sometimes signs them this way..

Bill
 
That said, the beauty of BSP books are their identification through coloured title page and in this case - the spine. If the spine is right - it would have to be a very elaborate fraud with the price not justifying the effort.

But, as mentioned in other threads here, the occasional trade edition ended up with spine cloth used on one of the signed editions. That said, everything about the number and Buk's signature and drawing look genuine to me. I'm no expert on Crumb, so all I can add is to echo the first couple of posts.
 

chronic

old and in the way
But, as mentioned in other threads here, the occasional trade edition ended up with spine cloth used on one of the signed editions.

I've never seen this, but it's true that the limited editions have on occasion ended up with the trade issue cloth. If Crumb didn't sign this then Bill's explanation of someone else signing it to "make it right" is really the only one that makes sense.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
I saw a a Comic book signed by Crumb with separated letters in the established comic book shop, "Lambiek" in Amsterdam in 2002. It was signed with a pencil (!) and in capital letters. The rest of the Crumb signatures I saw there was in normal handwriting and very readable (Crumb visited the store and signed a lot of stuff some years before). If you look at these Crumb posters here, the signatures (printed) looks quite a bit like the one in question, especially on the second poster (in the lower right hand corner of the motif - R Crumb '94):

http://www.lambiek.net/crumb__exhibition/crumb_expo1.htm
 
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ROC

It is what it is
This is what a Crumb signature looks like normally...

Crumb sig.JPG
 
I've never seen this, but it's true that the limited editions have on occasion ended up with the trade issue cloth. If Crumb didn't sign this then Bill's explanation of someone else signing it to "make it right" is really the only one that makes sense.

I musta got it backwards then. But since all the signed copies were signed by both Buk and Crumb, if the Crumb is bad then so is the Buk. But the Buk isn't (is it? no way!), so how can the Crumb be bad? Do you want chicken or eggs?
 

hank solo

Just practicin' steps and keepin' outta the fights
Reaper Crew
Moderator
Founding member
I would suppose the pages were signed by Bukowski and Crumb at different times and in different places.
 

mjp

Founding member
Yeah, I would think that this one was just missed somehow, or something got screwed up in the transport and signing of the pages.

I would buy the book cheap and erase the Crumb signature. ;) But it's already been bid up too high for that.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
What would be a reasonable price for the book - apart from the question of the legitimacy of the Crumb signature?
 

mjp

Founding member
Any signed Bukowski is going to sell for a decent price. Even crappy regular editions that are signed seem to be solidly in the $100+ range lately. The Bukowski/Crumb books are hard to call though. Sometimes Crumb fans bid them up pretty high. But I suspect Crumb fans are debating the validity of that signature in a forum somewhere too. ;)

It's got condition issues even without the questionable signature. So who knows.
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Ok, thanks, mjp! I think the signature is real because, as I earlier said, I once saw a genuine Crumb signature in capital letters written with a pencil. I think it's just Crumb having "fun" making different signatures from time to time. And if it's not genuine, then it's really strange since the book should be signed by Buk and Crumb. Could it be a book that only Buk signed for some reason and then the seller added a false Crumb signature, because it's supposed to be there? It's a mystery allright...:confused:
 
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Could it be a book that only Buk signed for some reason and then the seller added a false Crumb signature, because it's supposed to be there? It's a mystery allright...:confused:

That's exactly what I was getting at a couple of posts back, and the responses seemed to indicate that Crumb may have missed signing this one, so the sig might have been added later. I dunno. And I'll add a disclaimer that I'm not drawing any overall conclusion of total veracity.

Anything can happen, but it also wouldn't surprise me if Crumb wanted to fuck with people a bit. I can't sit here and say anything about Crumb is legit or not legit, because I know jack-shit about his signatures (except one or two I've seen on ebay, but how do I know they were legit? - they did look very different from this one, however). I would go to my grave saying that the Buk sig and drawing is totally cool.
 
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Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Yes, an added fake Crumb signature is certainly a possibility! And it's also a possibility that Crumb signed this one differently. It has happend before, as I said in an earlier post. It has to be one of those two possibilities, I think, but which one is it? That's the big question. I'm at a loss but I tend to believe it's real. If only there was a way to find out...
 
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mjp

Founding member
I once saw a genuine Crumb signature in capital letters written with a pencil. I think it's just Crumb having "fun" making different signatures from time to time.
Well, now that we've been talking about this I've been looking at Crumb signatures and yes, he signed his strips and art with block letters, but if you look at those block letters they're nothing like this signature. So far I haven't been able to find a signature even close to the one on eBay.

Again, looking at a few dozen signatures hardly makes anyone an expert, but I'm 99% sure that signature is not by R. Crumb. Anyone ever seen Earle Gray's handwriting? ;)
 
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bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Yes, even when Crumb does not do the flourishes and uses block (I have one here like that), he does not seem to use those lower case letters in his last name. Still, it is possible that he was screwing around. It is just odd that we have never seen one that is even close.

Bill
 

mjp

Founding member
found this while looking for Crumb signatures. (scroll down 3/4's)
Good lord, I could barely make it past the 1952 Gibson J45. Anyone have $5k to loan me? I will pay you back in love and positive vibrations, maaaan!

But the Crumb signature is typical, and only reinforces what we suspect.

Interesting that the colophons are laid out differently in those two books. I never noticed that before. And that there were 376 copies of Bring Me Your Love signed by both and 426 of There's No Business. Wonder why they added 50 to the limited edition of There's No Business? Maybe BSP found they could sell more that they anticipated due to the addition of the Crumb collectors...
 

jordan

lothario speedwagon
i bet they did... given that there was no hardcover of BMYL until the 2nd printing except the limited one, but they did a nice hardcover trade of TNB with yellow cloth and everything.
 

hoochmonkey9

Art should be its own hammer.
Reaper Crew
Moderator
Founding member
Good lord, I could barely make it past the 1952 Gibson J45. Anyone have $5k to loan me? I will pay you back in love and positive vibrations, maaaan!

yeah.
the fret less acoustic bass is pretty also.
if someone played bass.

but anyway, the Crumb sig discussed in this particular thread seems an anomaly, if not fake.
 

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