Who the fuck is Paul McCartney? (1 Viewer)


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I don't know if this is just evolution or de-evolution.


How much history do kids have to know, particularly if they only enjoy music as the wallpaper it has become? I don't know.

Before anyone suggests that McCartney is relevant and not "history," I would suggest he hasn't been relevant in decades. Like Dylan, Iggy and the rest of them. Doesn't mean they aren't awesome or groovy. But relevant would be stretching things.

THIS is relevant though. Another nail in the music industry coffin. Good riddance, shitbags.
I have a litmus test for music acts and their relevance or lack of, and that is their willingness to play Halifax (my city).

in the past 5 years, we've had The Rolling Stones, Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Pearl Jam, U2, Elton John, Leonard Cohen. Tom Petty is coming and so is Madonna. I'm sure I'm forgetting some, I try not to leave my house except for work, books and booze...

in their prime, the closest these bands would make it to Halifax is Montreal or Boston. very few bands come here when they are relevant. most come before (I saw Guns and Roses in '87, Sonic Youth played here in '84, Simon and Garfunkel in the early/mid '60s) or when they are long past it.

and yes, fuck the music industry.
Were there who the fuck is Glen Campbell or Beach Boy Tweets?
I'm still trying to find out who the fuck is this Minaj twit twat 15..... and counting
Lets see if she plays Halifax some time soon
Fuck those who play the music industry game too
Popular music is a weird thing. If Brian Wilson and Paul McCartney teamed up with Neil Young and they made 8-bit Deep Trench Voodoo Blast House Meowmix CDs available only by download on secret torrent web sites they still wouldn't be relevant.

But I don't know if anything is relevant anymore. Is any music right now of the time? Is there anything people will be able to listen to in 25 years and think, "Oh, yeah, the 20teens, what a strange and wonderful time!" I don't know. I don't think so.

The last form of popular music I can think of that was of its time is the bleak Northwest horror that was labeled as grunge. All of those hippies dressing like it was 1975 in Minnesota and playing their ugly doom rawk. A mountain of horrible shit, but still relevant at the time (even though the very best of them, Nirvana, were just playing 70s music with an 80s attitude and 90s marketing).

Nothing since then but recycling. The pop culture nostalgia cycle has finally looped back onto itself creating an era where everything is popular at once and nothing is relevant. Time keeps on passing and everything remains the same.
Wow, that's some site about the artwork in the caves!
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There is this nerd pop rock thing right now where every act dresses like the people you used to give a wedgie too I mean before every goof on another wasn't labelled bullying-Maybe the Bare Naked Ladies were ahead of their time?
Maybe you hit it MJP. Is relevant relevant? Apple is relevant. Google is relevant. Facebook Twitter and You Tube are relevant right now but the artist, an artist, a style I say no not today-Even this medium (the dedicated site) is outside the main stream since it requires focusing on a unifying theme that isn't here today gone today. Not to get all Godin on everyone but maybe the tribe the unifying theme/group defines relevance in smaller but more vocal and identifiable pockets. An example is City lights seeking this site out based on our focus-our tribe-maybe we are the New Relevants. Which should be my new band name.

All that said
I really really liked the Bruno Mars performance on the grammys- even though it was James Brown Doo wop-add some Prince-but still a fucking great performance-blew me away. And the rest of what he does sucks-thats frustrating-gone today
Speaking of Doo wop and Paul McCartney -check out Dick Tracy by the Chants-another Liverpool group.
But I don't know if anything is relevant anymore. Is any music right now of the time?

Amongst those in my bracket (early to late-twenties) Dubstep is perhaps the last genre that held any cultural hegemony. Although, it has ruined for me what I understood as original Dub. Can no longer listen to Levy or Tubby without being reminded of their successors.

I do believe that there is still great music being composed, it is hard to find something original or provoking though.
Dubstep would be a good example, but I'm not sure that in 20 years people will say, "Did we actually listen to that shit?" I think it's more likely they'll say, "Dubwhat? Oh, is that what that was called? Yeah, I always hated that. I'm so glad it's not the 20-teens anymore."

Hmm. So yeah, maybe you're right.

60s and 70s dub is still the foundation of pretty much everything that came after it (and certainly of everything that's popular now), don't let the pseudo-hippies and trustafarians ruin that for you. You can't kill dub, it's indestructible!
It's the equivalent of Dan Brown to literature. Cannot seem to escape it's gaze, waves of warm diarrhoea wash over my ears every single day. Bars, shops, neighbours houses, flatmates, ice cream trucks. I would rather have Kenny G follow me around - accompanying every move I make with a corresponding solo.

Burial is the exception.
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Dylan and McCartney (to cite names already mentioned), along with a few other relics, are still relevant because they changed the world. You can't take that away. Is their current output relevant? I don't give a rat's ass. They've already done enough in my book. Throw in Monk, Mingus, Coltrane. Still terribly relevant in my mind's eye. Beethoven, Bartok, and Zappa. Relevant, still. You can't separate the impact of music from 1824 from that of 1974.

As for new music, 99% of it is startlingly irrelevant. I don't know if it's my advancing age or that it really just sucks. There are quotes from the ancient Greeks that the youth of the day would ruin the world of the future. I do like The Mars Volta, however. Juan Alderete can bring it.
Stickpin you have a point
Mingus, like Strummer or Dylan, Iggy, Tosh and Satch (insert your own) wait around and when some of the kids dig deep enough-say -well what took you so long, I have been here all the time.
I'm still finding music, weekly, listening to WWOZ out of New Orleans. Music that was there all the time.
Fuck I didn't read Bukowski till 40-he was totally irrelevant then he was-and life changes-and that's a buzz that kids that don't dig won't get.

adj \ˈre-lə-vənt\
Definition of RELEVANT

a : having significant and demonstrable bearing on the matter at hand

I think you are confusing the issue. I love many of the artists I listed in my post above. most of the music I listen to now is not relevant.
if music is to be relevant it has to be in step, and preferably, slightly ahead of society.
Yeah, I'm afraid that I would also have to disagree that Dylan, McCartney, The Clash, The Wailers or Mozart are relevant, they are not. Their music is important to me, and it always will be. It still matters. People still discover it every day and it can have an enormous impact on them. I wasn't trying to make a point that it wasn't still important.

But time passes and the world changes, and like I asked, is any music relevant? I don't think so. Not at the moment. But what is relevant, outside of a lot of technical communication-type shit? In terms of culture, we are in the midst of a famine.
I think you are confusing the issue. I love many of the artists I listed in my post above. most of the music I listen to now is not relevant.
if music is to be relevant it has to be in step, and preferably, slightly ahead of society.
So the real question is what is the matter at hand? If the matter at hand is pop music history, The Beatles and Dylan are certainly relevant and always will be.

So this thread is irrelevant, right?
If the matter at hand is pop music history, The Beatles and Dylan are certainly relevant and always will be.

they were certainly relevant in their time. but I think at this point we are just arguing semantics.

new band name! The Arguing Semantics!
The Newsome Antics.
Using Hooch's definition my penis will always be relevant. That said, Here is where I still say hold on.
Bukowski relevant yes or no?
To us-(a group with a focused interest and interested in any matter at hand related to that focus) the answer is yes
To most people even most readers with a different focus probably not.
I'm saying there are certain artists with loose tribes of focused members that drift in and out and that these tribes exist makes them relevant. Not on again off again fans but people with a focused interest.
If Bukowski is not relevant then I'm wrong.
But if he is, then how is his relevance defined other than the way outlined above?

I'm thinking Music culture has changed. It is no longer given to us through radio or chain stores-entirely s now suggested by friends or byit has to be unearthed dug up-googled. Then if it sticks maybe just maybe you leave your house and go watch the band-but more than likely you join a loose tribe via the net.

Is now suggested by friends or by others with similar interests.-we are in a culture of tribes active focused but always apparent to those outside our tribe.
Seth says it better than I do

Music lessons

Things you can learn from the music business (as it falls apart)
The first rule is so important, it's rule 0:
0. The new thing is never as good as the old thing, at least right now.
Soon, the new thing will be better than the old thing will be. But if you wait until then, it's going to be too late. Feel free to wax nostalgic about the old thing, but don't fool yourself into believing it's going to be here forever. It won't.
1. Past performance is no guarantee of future success
Every single industry changes and, eventually, fades. Just because you made money doing something a certain way yesterday, there's no reason to believe you'll succeed at it tomorrow.
The music business had a spectacular run alongside the baby boomers. Starting with the Beatles and Dylan, they just kept minting money. The co-incidence of expanding purchasing power of teens along with the birth of rock, the invention of the transistor and changing social mores meant a long, long growth curve.
As a result, the music business built huge systems. They created top-heavy organizations, dedicated superstores, a loss-leader touring industry, extraordinarily high profit margins, MTV and more. It was a well-greased system, but the key question: why did it deserve to last forever?
It didn't. Yours doesn't either.
2. Copy protection in a digital age is a pipe dream
If the product you make becomes digital, expect that the product you make will be copied.
There's a paradox in the music business that is mirrored in many industries: you want ubiquity, not obscurity, yet digital distribution devalues your core product.
Remember, the music business is the one that got in trouble for bribing disk jockeys to play their music on the radio. They are the ones that spent millions to make (free) videos for MTV. And yet once the transmission became digital, they understood that there's not a lot of reason to buy a digital version (via a cumbersome expensive process) when the digital version is free (and easier).
Most items of value derive that value from scarcity. Digital changes that, and you can derive value from ubiquity now.
The solution isn't to somehow try to become obscure, to get your song off the (digital) radio. The solution is to change your business.
You used to sell plastic and vinyl. Now, you can sell interactivity and souvenirs.
3. Interactivity can't be copied
Products that are digital and also include interaction thrive on centralization and do better and better as the market grows in size (consider Facebook or Basecamp).
Music is social. Music is current and everchanging. And most of all, music requires musicians. The winners in the music business of tomorrow are individuals and organizations that create communities, connect people, spread ideas and act as the hub of the wheel... indispensable and well-compensated.
4. Permission is the asset of the future
For generations, businesses had no idea who their end users were. No ability to reach through the record store and figure out who was buying that Rolling Stones album, no way to know who bought this book or that vase.
Today, of course, permission is an asset to be earned. The ability (not the right, but the privilege) of delivering anticipated, personal and relevant messages to people who want to get them. For ten years, the music business has been steadfastly avoiding this opportunity.
It's interesting though, because many musicians have NOT been avoiding it. Many musicians have understood that all they need to make a (very good) living is to have 10,000 fans. 10,000 people who look forward to the next record, who are willing to trek out to the next concert. Add 7 fans a day and you're done in 5 years. Set for life. A life making music for your fans, not finding fans for your music.
The opportunity of digital distribution is this:
When you can distribute something digitally, for free, it will spread (if it's good). If it spreads, you can use it as a vehicle to allow people to come back to you and register, to sign up, to give you permission to interact and to keep them in the loop.
Many authors (I'm on that list) have managed to build an entire career around this idea. So have management consultants and yes, insurance salespeople. Not by viewing the spread of digital artifacts as an inconvenient tactic, but as the core of their new businesses.
5. A frightened consumer is not a happy consumer.
I shouldn't have to say this, but here goes: suing people is like going to war. If you're going to go to war with tens of thousands of your customers every year, don't be surprised if they start treating you like the enemy.
6. This is a big one: The best time to change your business model is while you still have momentum.
It's not so easy for an unknown artist to start from scratch and build a career self-publishing. Not so easy for her to find fans, one at a time, and build an audience. Very, very easy for a record label or a top artist to do so. So, the time to jump was yesterday. Too late. Okay, how about today?
The sooner you do it, the more assets and momentum you have to put to work.
7. Remember the Bob Dylan rule: it's not just a record, it's a movement.
Bob and his handlers have a long track record of finding movements. Anti-war movements, sure, but also rock movies, the Grateful Dead, SACDs, Christian rock and Apple fanboys. What Bob has done (and I think he's done it sincerely, not as a calculated maneuver) is seek out groups that want to be connected and he works to become the connecting the point.
By being open to choices of format, to points of view, to moments in time, Bob Dylan never said, "I make vinyl records that cost money to listen to." He understands at some level that music is often the soundtrack for something else.
I think the same thing can be true for chefs and churches and charities and politicians and makers of medical devices. People pay a premium for a story, every time.
8. Don't panic when the new business model isn't as "clean' as the old one
It's not easy to give up the idea of manufacturing CDs with a 90% gross margin and switching to a blended model of concerts and souvenirs, of communities and greeting cards and special events and what feels like gimmicks. I know.
Get over it. It's the only option if you want to stay in this business. You're just not going to sell a lot of CDs in five years, are you?
If there's a business here, first few in will find it, the rest lose everything.
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9. Read the writing on the wall.
Hey, guys, I'm not in the music business and even I've been writing about this for years. I even started a record label five years ago to make the point. Industries don't die by surprise. It's not like you didn't know it was coming. It's not like you didn't know who to call (or hire).
This isn't about having a great idea (it almost never is). The great ideas are out there, for free, on your neighborhood blog. Nope, this is about taking initiative and making things happen.
The last person to leave the current record business won't be the smartest and he won't be the most successful, either. Getting out first and staking out the new territory almost always pays off.
10. Don't abandon the Long Tail
Everyone in the hit business thinks they understand the secret: just make hits. After all, if you do the math, it shows that if you just made hits, you'd be in fat city.
Of course, the harder you try to just make hits, the less likely you are to make any hits at all. Movies, records, books... the blockbusters always seem to be surprises. Surprise hit cookbooks, even.
Instead, in an age when it's cheaper than ever to design something, to make something, to bring something to market, the smart strategy is to have a dumb strategy. Keep your costs low and go with your instincts, even when everyone says you're wrong. Do a great job, not a perfect one. Bring things to market, the right market, and let them find their audience.
Stick to the knitting has never been more wrong. Instead, find products your customers want. Don't underestimate them. They're more catholic in their tastes than you give them credit for.
11. Understand the power of digital
Try to imagine something like this happening ten years ago: An eleven-year-old kid wakes up on a Saturday morning, gets his allowance, then, standing in his pajamas, buys a Bon Jovi song for a buck.
Compare this to hassling for a ride, driving to the mall, finding the album in question, finding the $14 to pay for it and then driving home.
You may believe that your business doesn't lend itself to digital transactions. Many do. If you've got a business that doesn't thrive on digital, it might not grow as fast as you like... Maybe you need to find a business that does thrive on digital.

12. Celebrity is underrated
The music business has always created celebrities. And each celebrity has profited for decades from that fame. Frank Sinatra is dead and he's still profiting. Elvis is still alive and he's certainly still profiting.
The music business has done a poor job of leveraging that celebrity and catching the value it creates. Many businesses now have the power to create their own micro-celebrities. These individuals capture attention and generate trust, two critical elements in growing profits.
13. Value is created when you go from many to few, and vice versa
The music business has thousands of labels and tens of thousands of copyright holders. It's a mess.
And there's just one iTunes music store. Consolidation pays.
At the same time, there are other industries where there are just a few major players and the way to profit is to create splinters and niches.
13. Whenever possible, sell subscriptions
Few businesses can successfully sell subscriptions (magazines being the very best example), but when you can, the whole world changes. HBO, for example, is able to spend its money making shows for its viewers rather than working to find viewers for every show.
The biggest opportunity for the music business is to combine permission with subscription. The possibilities are endless. And I know it's hard to believe, but the good old days are yet to happen.
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Pop music present would not exist as it does without the relevance of Dylan, McCartney, et al. Of course, it's not their fault. :rolleyes:

In a related context, is Bukowski relevant? From what I'm reading in the conxtext of the music discussion above, the answer would appear to be no. So, this website is dedicated to an irrelevant writer?
I think some of those bands, and Bukowski, may not be relevant to the general population, but they can be relevant to individual lives at certain times.
The matter at hand is pop music present.
Therefore, Dylan and McCartney are completely relevant because pop music as it presently exists is based largely upon the foundation built by the likes of these two.

Who am I kidding? I was just searching my posts for an old thread that I can't find about a Buk poem regarding fat freaks swiggin beer, shoving hot dogs in their mouths and screaming at one another at the track. Hank Solo answered my question but I can't find the damn thing. In lieu of gratification on that front, I'm just looking for an argument, I suppose.

Edit: Found it! Space Creatures, from War All the Time. Now that I've cleared that up, let's get on with an argument.

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