Why have forums declined in use? (1 Viewer)

The easy answer is to say that former active forum members have migrated to various social medias. But I find this hard to imagine, as they quality of conversation on say the various Bukowski facebook "pages" on forum is so poor - same goes for twitter.

It's not reasonable to say "we are all too busy" - more people spend more time on social media and their electronic devices than when forums declined about 10 years ago.

Question is: why are people not returning to this forum and others?
 

Trevor

Reaper Crew
Moderator
I believe it's the easy answer. Large tech companies have resources that we don't.

It's a familiar scenario in any industry, scores of little entities are swallowed up by big ones.
 
Last edited:
So, the answer easy the people that were active on here are on facebook and twitter no longer have a quality discussion on or around Bukowski? It's a sad commentary.

I too left forums for the shine of facebook and twitter but now i'm back, to bukowski.net and onlinelit.net - sadly, it's pretty vacant. it's like PBS, ok, most people do not watch it - but it has a solid base.
 

d gray

tried to do his best but could not
Founding member
i can tell you why. absolutely no offense to the new head honcho but the reason the forum is so less active is cause Hannah's not running the show. the mod's were essential to the site/forum running smoothly but Hannah was the heart and soul of this place. again, no offense to whoever took the reins but the magic of the forum disappeared with Hannah.
 

Hannah

Founding member
@d gray, you are too kind. 🥰

But you're right, a forum needs a driving force, someone who's in there every day and always has something to say (whether it makes any sense or not). It's people like that who spark the flame.

That being said, hats off to Trevor for keeping the forum up and available, and one day a spark may show up and start the fire again; who knows? ☺️
 
Hats off to Hannah and Trevor, but also, we need to realize that while there are a modestly large number of members here, we are very much a niche market and over the past 10 years or so, the bulk of the content has been provided by about 50 members. The Steve Hoffman music forums continue to thrive because there are many thousands of members there. A bit of attrition there is a blip on the radar. A bit of attrition here means we have a noticeable lack of posts.

Such is our lot in life. For the record, early in the pandemic, I pulled out my reading copies of all of Buk's poems. I made my way through them slowly, usually on the crapper (seemed appropriate) and I came to the conclusion that while Buk is a great poet, he really only has about 40-50 great poems. A few hundred really good ones, but about 20 or so of those poems are in the absolute stratosphere of poetry. That's more than I can state for any other poet.
 
All forums are shells of their former selves, with little exception. The big social medias are the gathering places.

But I find this hard to imagine, as they quality of conversation on say the various Bukowski facebook "pages" on forum is so poor - same goes for twitter.

It's not reasonable to say "we are all too busy" - more people spend more time on social media and their electronic devices than when forums declined about 10 years ago.

Question is: why are people not returning to this forum and others?
 
When Hanna was giving it up, I offered to foot the bill, but said up front that I couldn't manage the day-2-day. And now that

The database alone was an incredible piece of work that I didn't contribute to, but I rely on all the time. Folks like Purple and Hanna created it and it is an incredible resource. Because of that work, I have been able to contribute much more in the future. I have posted tons of good stuff on here over the years, but I no longer have the drive to post after 12 am. But I will be back when I am able.

Right now, there is no inspiration to contribute anything. People in the past would get suspended for posting shit. Now this place is as boring as Wonder Bread. I wish someone would drop some truth to get thrown out.
 

d gray

tried to do his best but could not
Founding member
trevor i'm sorry man, i hope that didn't come off like a diss to you. not my intent at all.

thanks for keeping the place alive.
 
I got tossed from the "back alley" even though I contributed more than 95% percent of the assholes that spewed their uniformed opinions on here. But it was at least an honor to get tossed from the back alley -- these days, the folks here wouldn't even know the vast amount of information that resided in the back alley that could be used for research.

This space should be open to anyone who has ever been inspired by Bukowski. And no one should put them down no matter goofy stuff they say. But there is a higher level of contributors here that add significant value to the historical record who have every right to contribute and call out bullshit.

20221118_204929.jpg
 

Trevor

Reaper Crew
Moderator
None taken! If this site recovers any of its former glory it won't be because of me.

Also, it doesn't need to recover. I'll host it indefinitely as-is.
 

zobraks

Reaper Crew
Moderator
I have posted tons of good stuff on here over the years
That's why the management tolerates some of the posts you make while not quite sober.
I wish you you would continue to post stuff, but it's your call.

This place was mostly dependent on one person (mjp/Hannah), but the regulars sure did a great part of the job as well.

I won't name you, but many of you (regulars) were desperate when this place was about to be closed (in December of 2020) and you wanted it to last and started to be hyperactive more active for a short time before the forum was closed.
Now that The Forum is open for contributions again, (huge) thanks to Trevor, the same people are nowhere to be seen.
Make your own conclusions.
 
And fuck Nick Ga

My name is Pogue Mahone and you can kiss my ass...

But Zobraks has always been one of the good guys... although he never sleeps...
 
Here's a painting I don't believe has been posted here. It's a 1/50 Post Office.

20221118_204622.jpg

Again, I want to point out that the database is incredibly important and I had nothing to do with that. It is incredibly important as a tool for current and future research. May it live on.
 
I wish I could have hit the 'Love!' button(!),
after reading this.
When Hanna was giving it up, I offered to foot the bill, but said up front that I couldn't manage the day-2-day. And now that

The database alone was an incredible piece of work that I didn't contribute to, but I rely on all the time. Folks like Purple and Hanna created it and it is an incredible resource. Because of that work, I have been able to contribute much more in the future. I have posted tons of good stuff on here over the years, but I no longer have the drive to post after 12 am. But I will be back when I am able.

Right now, there is no inspiration to contribute anything. People in the past would get suspended for posting shit. Now this place is as boring as Wonder Bread. I wish someone would drop some truth to get thrown out.
I got tossed from the "back alley" even though I contributed more than 95% percent of the assholes that spewed their uniformed opinions on here. But it was at least an honor to get tossed from the back alley -- these days, the folks here wouldn't even know the vast amount of information that resided in the back alley that could be used for research.

This space should be open to anyone who has ever been inspired by Bukowski. And no one should put them down no matter goofy stuff they say. But there is a higher level of contributors here that add significant value to the historical record who have every right to contribute and call out bullshit.

View attachment 20012
 
Babs, it was either you (Pogue) or Shane MacGowan and my money was on you. I know I've posted a buncha stuff that's still around here somewhere, but I can't add anything at this time because my computer went belly-up and I no longer have any digital copies of my stuff. I'll try to keep things going, but I can't do it alone.
 
There’s definitely many good members who left due to the owner’s heavy hand. They’re not coming back. It was definitely MJP’s bully pulpit, in no uncertain terms, which was his right, but it has lead to where the forum is now, a ghost town. I get the feeling that the powers that be prefer it that way, so what remains is the result of his ego, to a large degree. I was always part troll, so my opinion is meaningless, but I do miss the give and take of differing ideas, from those many members who were treated pretty poorly.
No one owns Bukowski or his legacy (except Linda B.), but MJP set himself up as such, which again, he got to do. I personally always liked Hannah, Z, Stephen, D. Gray, etc., but the overall effect has not been particularly welcoming,
 
I lobbied for Pogue’s reinstatement several times, but it wasn’t to be. Then I got bounced/bounced myself, and that was that.
I also remember Bill having his usual personal issues, and getting reamed publicly by Michael. Maybe I’m a hypocrite, but I thought that was pretty unnecessary.
I also need to say that I was an asshole many times to members, so I have a part as well.
 
Last edited:
OK, so why would MJP kick Abel Debritto out of the back alley -- the most well-trained Buk researcher to date? Because MJP's feeings got hurt? Because someone had a more historical- based narrative?

And what about AL Fogel -- who actually knew Buk and contributed so much to this forum? Sure, he was a little unhinged, but why did you (MJP) have to pick on him when he contributed so much to this place. I can assure everyone here that he was a very nice guy with a much smaller ego than MJP.

And MJP's rants about how Poems and Drawings wasn't a "real" Bukowski book just because it didn't have some kind of original cover -- not great poems, but all Bukowski poems with 3 drawings. Why does he consider that any different from the other chapbooks produced at the time? At least Buk didn't help pay to produce it...

I have complete respect and am very grateful to MJP and the others for creating the database, but (again) power produced corruption in the overall history...

Pogue
 

d gray

tried to do his best but could not
Founding member
. It was definitely MJP’s bully pulpit, in no uncertain terms, which was his right, but it has lead to where the forum is now, a ghost town.

i didn't see it that way at all. the forum seemed as active as ever right up until hannah retired from running it.

btw bonnie b are you aka skiroom? what's up, either way.

remember, the overriding rule and condition of the back alley was, regardless of contributions, "don't be an asshole." not saying you were, just that that was a common denominator of that group. which is why i'm still surprised i never got 86'd...
 
Hey d, yeah it’s me. Hope you and yours are well. I’ve definitely had my bully/troll moments over the years, I really just should speak for myself. There’s no one absolute reason for the decline of buknet forum, but a mix of them.
I’m surprised Bukfan, Philly Dave, Johannes, etc. haven’t returned. Maybe they don’t know it’s active again.
 
As a longtime lurker, there were some times when I thought the banhammer was used a little too liberally on this board, but considering most of the people banned were just shitposters it's not a big deal. Still, sometimes it is funny to read a good troll. Had it been me, I would have tolerated the driveby shitposters a bit more.

Be that as it may, this board has done a good job staying active despite the general decline of message boards. So maybe mjp's liberal banning was good quality control. And even with our admin's stepping out and the board being locked for a spell, it's astonishing that some regulars have already come back. I would say things are far from over for the bukowski.net forum.

However, going back to OP, discussion boards are a relic of the Internet before the rise of social media. If you weren't posting on discussion boards before social media, it's unlikely you're going to start now. At least that's my two cents.

Also, Re: Debritto and Fogel, I don't remember noticing anything regarding mjp's treatment of them. I don't doubt it, but I wouldn't even know where to look on the discussion board to see.
 

d gray

tried to do his best but could not
Founding member
Hope you and yours are well. .
thanks - same to you.

Still, sometimes it is funny to read a good troll.

those were some of the most entertaining and fun posts/threads. i still once in a while revisit some of them for a laugh.

So maybe mjp's liberal banning was good quality control.

hannah ran a tight ship and was the reason the forum didn't flame out. the mods were super important too but hannah's "firm but fair" approach is what kept it rocking.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top