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Winter on ebay and why I have issues with it (1 Viewer)



I asked the seller why there have been at least 10 copies of this in the past 6 months. I was curious why they all have teh same artwork. Was it possible that they have a cache of identical signed with artwork?

So far it has been almost a week and no reply. I guess that they do not like the question.

I'm not accusing, but I have found in the past that the typical ebay scam is to let the item get high and then shill bid it up. Then to relist it, or try to sell to the lower bidder. Another thing that I see is sellers selling a signed one, but uasig a signed with artwork. Of course, the buyer then gets a signed, but without artwork piece.

Anyone else have any idea why this seller is selling the identical item for a tenth time?

I won't play the game and drive up the price. As much as I'd love to own one of these, I'll let them sell it for far too little.

Am I out of my mind here? Something smells wrong here...

Yeah, What the hell is going on here?!
I see this is signed and numbered # 198...
I'm almost positive that's the same # as his last one.
I'll e-mail him too, Bill
Now I see that the artwork is slightly different. That still raises two HUGE issues (again, not accusing anyone, just talking....):

The buyer is not someone that you would expect to see buying a $250 Buk broadside. He seems to buy $5 wrestling action figures. I usually have seen the name before when I get outbid, unless it is a high end book, where high end book dealers also get in the mix. Broadisdes are usually sold to those core collectors, that I have seen over the past 10 years on ebay. This looks like a shill. Additionally, the fact that the buyer left FB for the seller, yet he is selling the same #'d broadside that he supposedly already sold makes it look all the more so. But then, some sellers just ask a friend to throw up a bid to protect the price and let them know that they will not have to buy it is they are the winner. It is tough for Ebay to shut these down, but we don't have to play into their plans by paying too much because they have a friend that is assisting the fraud.

If so, then folks, they aim to drive the price up and make you pay more. Sometimes they have to be the high bidder to keep it from going too low....

If this is the case, I have a feeling that this may be the last time this shows up. Too many questions...

Does anyone want to let "thebukshop" know. If he cancells his bid and oroberts does the same, maybe the seller will realize that the jig is up...

I hate to cast aspersions, but I will anyway. I had mentioned in a previous thread that at an ABAA bookfair here in NYC a few years back, Second Story Books had for sale a few early Buk chapbooks that contained UCSB library stamps in them. I am not saying that they were the ones who removed them from the library, but if you are trying to run a reputable rare book business, why would you handle such a thing? These guys have never rubbed me the right way and not just because of the example I just cited.
They said that they cancelled the auction and apologized for the error in the listing, but also did not like tha accusations.... tough...

I just received a reply from Second Story Books, this is what they said:
Thank you for your interest in the Bukowski broadside. Please refer to the close up image of the item stating that 199 signed and numbered copies were printed in 1975. We guarantee their authenticity and take issue with ABE and Amazon's misinformation.
ebay dept.
Would the correct information be listed in the Krumhansl bibliography?
Well, since we're throwing all of our doubts into the ring...

Those don't look like mid-seventies era Bukowski signatures and drawings. They look shaky, the way some of his later (much later, shortly before he died) signatures and drawings look.

The broadside states that the edition was signed and numbered and published in 1975, so the whole thing looks off to me. I don't have a known legit version to compare it to though, so I can't be sure. Anyone else have one of these not bought from this seller?

less than 200 made, seems odd one person would have such a stockpile at this late date. Unless they got them from the publisher at some point and sat on them. I don't know.
How is it possible to list #182 twice, each time with a different drawing?
Smells fishy, to say the least! :confused:
As far as the limitationm and signature, I have no doubt that they are authentic. They are dead on what krumhansl described a they even show a photo. I would feel very comfortable saying that this IS authentic. Still, the sale of these seems a bit smarmy...

Also, our own David Barker (Rekrab) is quoted in krumhansl about this exact item.

David. Were you involved in the production of this? I know that you had family in Chicago, where this was published...

bospress.net said:
Also, our own David Barker (Rekrab) is quoted in krumhansl about this exact item.
I am? What does it say? Maybe he's quoting from my bibliographic guide published in the early 80s. We're talking about the broadside "Winter", right? I had nothing to do with it, although I do have family in Chicago. In a hurry, but I'll go look at my guide and see what said about it back then, based, I'm sure, soley on research and not personal knowledge of the item.
Hi Rekrab;
According to Krumhansl "note: according to David Barker there were some copies with additional drawings by Bukowski"

Wierd. It gives the impression that you were interviewed for that. In the acknowledgements, you are not mentioned. Probably an oversight.

Hi Bill

I wasn't interviewed by Krumhansl. He's probably talking about my CHARLES BUKOWSKI: A BIBLIOGRAPHIC PRICE GUIDE (1983). In there I say that "WINTER" was limited to 199 numbered and signed copies, and I give a value for that, and then another value for a copy with "added original drawings."

The way I created the guide was that many items listed were in my personal collection (since sold off), and I gave careful firsthand descriptions. Others I hadn't seen firsthand but had located descriptions of them in rare book dealer catalogs that I'd collected beginning in the 1960s. I always tried to get at least two agreeing descriptions for any items that I didn't have in-hand. I found that most dealers were very careful and accurate in their cataloging, and most descriptions of items offered agreed in the major points (such as date of publication, number of copies, etc.), but a few dealers were wildly sloppy, so I had to be careful about using "facts" gleened from catalogs, and only used what I could confirm with at least two sources. All this was before the internet, of course, which meant it was much more difficult to get any information about rare books. On the other hand, I was looking at catalogs printed decades ago, when much rarer stuff was available, so I was able to find descriptions of a lot of stuff that has since evaporated from the market. Try finding "FLOWER, FIST AND BESTIAL WAIL" on ABE, for example. It ain't there.

I wish I had been involved in producing "WINTER". I wouldn't mind having a stack of them stashed away.

Thanks, Bill, for the info about the quote.
For what it's worth, and slightly after the fact:

I have just run across an old but interesting discussion on bukowski.net regarding the No Mountains Poetry Project broadsides. I think I can clear a few things up for you and your compatriots.

My name is Darcie Sanders, and I am the illustrator of the series.

There ARE more than 150 signed copies. We aimed for 200 of each performer/poet, but all copies did not make the quality cut. Still, each run definitely had more than 150.

Bukowski embellished the broadsides with drawings of his own when he signed them. While each one is different, he used a restricted library of "characters" and so you will see some repetition of forms.

Each broadside is totally unique in the color illustration, too. They were hand silk-screened, with a color-cross technique that included more than one color of ink on the pulling screen at a time. (Usually each color is pulled totally separately.) This means that in each pull the layering and combining of color is slightly different. The type for the title "winter" is from antique wood hand-carved letterpress typography, which took the colored ink very nicely and shows excellent texture and variation. So, if anyone is looking for places to look for clues as to whether something is original or repro (other than a print number that might be forged), you can look to the color, too.

Bukowski, by the way, was quite delighted with the effect and was very gracious about taking the time to sign and embellish the broadsides.

Other poets & writers in the series were:

Mark Strand (2x)
Galway Kinnell,
William H. Gass,
Ed Dorn,
Diane di Prima,
John Hawks,
Robert Coover,
Anne Waldman

I hope this info has been helpful. Feel free to post it to your forum to help others if you like.

Darcie Sanders
[email protected]
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Interesting - first I've seen of this thread. Obviously, none of the links above work anymore, so I have no idea about the artwork in question. I have copy #193 of 199 and it contains three "illustrations:"

1. Top left corner, a "stringy" doodle about 5-6 inches high;
2. Lower right corner, another doodle that roughly approaches looking like a flower w/ stem and leaf; and
3. Middle right, his typical little man, but no bottle and he's wearing an atypical cowboy hat.

I'm assuming that by "Illustrator," Darcie means the colored graphics, not the drawings.

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