The senseless, tragic rape of Charles Bukowski’s ghost by John Martin’s Black Sparrow Press (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter mjp
- Start date
Bukowski was certainly the opening act for Black Sparrow, but what disappointed me about this new publishing house was that it didn't continue with an avantgarde direction and maintain an edge. It kicked off well, with Bukowski, but then began to draw in all these other more traditionalist writers (Black Mountain, etc.), which annoyed Bukowski as well as many other writers. I remember reading about this somewhere, it may have been in his correspondence, where writer friends of Bukowski wanted him to intervene and ask Martin why he was doing this. Martin wanted to play a safe bet and bring in names that were being taught in schools, colleges, but a lot of publishers are very poor at spotting talented and untested new writers and taking a gamble. I think it's the moneymaking aspect of publishing that blurs their vision. They work from names rather than from the quality of writing. A good publisher has to also be a very good talent scout!
Hosho McCreesh! Now that's a name I haven't heard for a while!
'mjp' - don't worry. I've been rejected by John Martin too! Rejections are good for the soul! C'MON, GET OVER IT!!! ;-)
That is a fairly weak and innocuous response.
mjp
Founding member
I might just add here that aside from removing references to drinking, drugs and madness and changing the plot of many Bukowski's poems, what Martin did hardly makes the work more "academic." In fact, it has quite the opposite effect.
Where Bukowski may have written something like:
I went to the kitchen
Martin would change that to:
I rose from my chair and walked slowly to the kitchen
That kills both the directness and simplicity of much of the work, as well as completely changing the rhythm, and when you change the rhythm of a poem, you change everything. If you spend time comparing the manuscripts to the published work, what you see is page after page of Martin explaining and expanding on things Bukowski purposely left unexplained.
So far from making Bukowski's work more palatable for universities, what Martin has done is make it more pedestrian and tailored to people who would prefer that you tell them the meaning rather than find a meaning for themselves. He has created, in effect, Bukowski for Dummies.
mjp
Founding member
This came up in another thread so I thought I would drop the numbers here.
Numbers don't tell the whole story, of course, and as you can see, we have more manuscripts for the later books, so that skews things.
But the important thing isn't the numbers, it's the nature of the changes. Where this list says, "show differences," those are significant differences. The database has two settings for manuscripts that differ from the published poems, altered and edited. We use edited where the poem hasn't undergone significant changes, or changes to meaning. Altered are changes that range from the pouring on of unnecessary, out of character adjectives to removing references to drinking, drugs and insanity. What could be considered changes to the meaning, or at least changes to the intent. Everything flagged here is marked altered in the database.
And as I've mentioned elsewhere, we still have about a thousand manuscripts to add to the database, so these numbers will change over time. Will they change for the better or for the worse? I don't think they are going to get much better. The sample so far is large enough to show the pattern.
- - -
The Days Run Away Like Wild Horses Over the Hills
0 available manuscripts
0 show differences
Mockingbird Wish Me Luck
1 available manuscripts
0 show differences
Burning in Water Drowning in Flame
2 available manuscripts
1 show differences
Love is a Dog From Hell
17 available manuscripts
3 show differences
Play the Piano Drunk Like a Percussion Instrument Until the Fingers Begin to Bleed a Bit
2 available manuscripts
0 show differences (but one was altered when collected later)
Dangling in the Tournefortia
8 available manuscripts
1 show differences
War All the Time
32 available manuscripts
3 show differences
You Get So Alone At Times That It Just Makes Sense
27 available manuscripts
0 show differences
The Roominghouse Madrigals
0 available manuscripts
0 show differences
Septuagenarian Stew
26 available manuscripts
0 show differences
The Last Night of the Earth Poems
1 available manuscripts
0 show differences
Betting on the Muse
11 available manuscripts
0 show differences
Bone Palace Ballet
22 available manuscripts
11 show differences
What matters most is how well you walk through the fire
70 available manuscripts
69 show differences
Open All Night
70 available manuscripts
63 show differences
the night torn mad with footsteps
69 available manuscripts
68 show differences
Sifting Through the Madness for the Word, the Line, the Way
54 available manuscripts
50 show differences
The Flash of Lightning Behind the Mountain
27 available manuscripts
25 show differences
Slouching Toward Nirvana
41 available manuscripts
40 show differences
Come On In!
45 available manuscripts
45 show differences
The People Look Like Flowers At Last
22 available manuscripts
19 show differences
The Continual Condition
20 available manuscripts
19 show differences
Numbers don't tell the whole story, of course, and as you can see, we have more manuscripts for the later books, so that skews things.
But the important thing isn't the numbers, it's the nature of the changes. Where this list says, "show differences," those are significant differences. The database has two settings for manuscripts that differ from the published poems, altered and edited. We use edited where the poem hasn't undergone significant changes, or changes to meaning. Altered are changes that range from the pouring on of unnecessary, out of character adjectives to removing references to drinking, drugs and insanity. What could be considered changes to the meaning, or at least changes to the intent. Everything flagged here is marked altered in the database.
And as I've mentioned elsewhere, we still have about a thousand manuscripts to add to the database, so these numbers will change over time. Will they change for the better or for the worse? I don't think they are going to get much better. The sample so far is large enough to show the pattern.
- - -
The Days Run Away Like Wild Horses Over the Hills
0 available manuscripts
0 show differences
Mockingbird Wish Me Luck
1 available manuscripts
0 show differences
Burning in Water Drowning in Flame
2 available manuscripts
1 show differences
Love is a Dog From Hell
17 available manuscripts
3 show differences
Play the Piano Drunk Like a Percussion Instrument Until the Fingers Begin to Bleed a Bit
2 available manuscripts
0 show differences (but one was altered when collected later)
Dangling in the Tournefortia
8 available manuscripts
1 show differences
War All the Time
32 available manuscripts
3 show differences
You Get So Alone At Times That It Just Makes Sense
27 available manuscripts
0 show differences
The Roominghouse Madrigals
0 available manuscripts
0 show differences
Septuagenarian Stew
26 available manuscripts
0 show differences
The Last Night of the Earth Poems
1 available manuscripts
0 show differences
Betting on the Muse
11 available manuscripts
0 show differences
Bone Palace Ballet
22 available manuscripts
11 show differences
What matters most is how well you walk through the fire
70 available manuscripts
69 show differences
Open All Night
70 available manuscripts
63 show differences
the night torn mad with footsteps
69 available manuscripts
68 show differences
Sifting Through the Madness for the Word, the Line, the Way
54 available manuscripts
50 show differences
The Flash of Lightning Behind the Mountain
27 available manuscripts
25 show differences
Slouching Toward Nirvana
41 available manuscripts
40 show differences
Come On In!
45 available manuscripts
45 show differences
The People Look Like Flowers At Last
22 available manuscripts
19 show differences
The Continual Condition
20 available manuscripts
19 show differences
I know mjp won't link to this, so I will.
Spread the word, brothers and sisters...
http://thisisnotatest.com/this-is-not-a-test-number-2/
Spread the word, brothers and sisters...
http://thisisnotatest.com/this-is-not-a-test-number-2/
King Biscuit Bukowski hour. Really cool.
PhillyDave
“The essential doesn't change.” Beckett
mjp, great job.
MJP in his latest podcast:
"Removing drinking from Bukowski's poetry is like taking away John Wayne's guns. He's still John Wayne, but he's a weak and crippled version of John Wayne."
To stay with this picture: How often did Bukowski draw his guns?
I could be wrong, of course, but I've got the newbie-impression that references to drinking come to less than 20 percent of his lifetime poetry.
Still a few hundred poems though.
Anyway, he didn't need his guns to be outstanding. Think of Old Man, Dead in a Room, The Crunch or The Genius of the Crowd, for example.
Drinking, I would say, is sometimes a subject in his poems, as it was a part of his life, and if anybody's trying to remove this, he removes a part of Bukowski.
And this is not acceptable.
"Removing drinking from Bukowski's poetry is like taking away John Wayne's guns. He's still John Wayne, but he's a weak and crippled version of John Wayne."
To stay with this picture: How often did Bukowski draw his guns?
I could be wrong, of course, but I've got the newbie-impression that references to drinking come to less than 20 percent of his lifetime poetry.
Still a few hundred poems though.
Anyway, he didn't need his guns to be outstanding. Think of Old Man, Dead in a Room, The Crunch or The Genius of the Crowd, for example.
Drinking, I would say, is sometimes a subject in his poems, as it was a part of his life, and if anybody's trying to remove this, he removes a part of Bukowski.
And this is not acceptable.
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mjp
Founding member
Removing references to drinking is really no different than removing (or worse, adding) any other words. The net result is a change to the meaning of the piece.
My reason for drawing attention to those specific changes is it helps to establish a pattern and a motive. That motive being to sanitize the Bukowski persona. To make it more "acceptable" to the academic world (or to Christian Scientists?) by removing the things he was most often criticized or derided for: writing about drinking and "whores."
But ultimately, attempting to sanitize the persona that Bukowski spent 50 years constructing - and that made him famous - is so irrational, idiotic and cowardly that it defies explanation. It demonstrates a complete ignorance of who Bukowski was, what his work was, and why people like to read it.
My reason for drawing attention to those specific changes is it helps to establish a pattern and a motive. That motive being to sanitize the Bukowski persona. To make it more "acceptable" to the academic world (or to Christian Scientists?) by removing the things he was most often criticized or derided for: writing about drinking and "whores."
But ultimately, attempting to sanitize the persona that Bukowski spent 50 years constructing - and that made him famous - is so irrational, idiotic and cowardly that it defies explanation. It demonstrates a complete ignorance of who Bukowski was, what his work was, and why people like to read it.
Dig in Andreas: https://bukowskiforum.com/threads/dispelling-bukowskis-myths.72/
LickTheStar
Sad Flower in the Sand
How about this bound-to-be awful compilation? 112 pages for $26?
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/00...&tag=charlebukowsa-20&linkId=BMXW2ZNGJ3QWVGVG
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/00...&tag=charlebukowsa-20&linkId=BMXW2ZNGJ3QWVGVG
Here's the topic.
LickTheStar
Sad Flower in the Sand
And I'm an idiot that didn't even make the connection!
I have a loose rule that if I can get an old publication with unpublished poems for $5 or less per unpublished poem, I buy it. So, despite the unfortunate choice of a series of thematic collections, if there are six good poems in this first volume, I'm ahead. Of course, those six will probably be the same six I bought in three different old small press volumes, so my math will make my head explode. But it's for a good cause, don't you know.
mjp
Founding member
I think it's all letters.
So you see, ladies and gentlemen, that's how you reel them in. With your sexual magnetism.
OK, if there are six good letters...I can do this all day long...
number6horse
okyoutwopixiesoutyougo
Great presentation but I'm weirded out by the fact that you sound so much like my friend Chris. Get out of my earbuds, mjChris !!!
Good lord I didn't have a clue such crime was being commited. I can totally relate to you... if that was in music, that editor would be releasing "covers" of the original work, but as if it was the real thing!!!
I´ve read the manuscript and the edited poem you´ve provided...
That's revolting. I don't know if we get waves of conservatism and it's an example of that. But here in Brazil we got 20 years of a dictatorship whose main target was culture/costumes(? I mean, tradition).
Poetry and music made (sorry, published!) on that time (1964-1985) sounds just like that. For dummies.
What surprises me nowadays is that this kind of behaviour is perpetrated by civilians... no need to dwell on John Martin, I´m talking about those who censored you on the use of the "rape" word.
And I must say I agree with the term. Bukowski's legacy was raped indeed!!!
I´ve read the manuscript and the edited poem you´ve provided...
That's revolting. I don't know if we get waves of conservatism and it's an example of that. But here in Brazil we got 20 years of a dictatorship whose main target was culture/costumes(? I mean, tradition).
Poetry and music made (sorry, published!) on that time (1964-1985) sounds just like that. For dummies.
What surprises me nowadays is that this kind of behaviour is perpetrated by civilians... no need to dwell on John Martin, I´m talking about those who censored you on the use of the "rape" word.
And I must say I agree with the term. Bukowski's legacy was raped indeed!!!
mjp
Founding member
I don't know that Martin hacked apart Bukowski's work as a result of a wave of conservatism, Martin is conservative. He's a Christian Scientist. Which makes his interest in Bukowski in the first place a little...unexpected, but art is art. You can't help what moves you.
No one but Martin will ever know what possessed him to alter the work once Bukowski was dead and he was free to do so. As I've said one or two or fifty times, the reason doesn't matter. What we're left with is the result.
One thing I will say (and I don't know if I've said this fifty times yet, but I'm sure I've said it before): what Martin did after Bukowski died demonstrates quite clearly that he never really understood Bukowski's work. He liked it, yes, obviously, but he didn't understand it. No one who understood it could have done what he did.
No one but Martin will ever know what possessed him to alter the work once Bukowski was dead and he was free to do so. As I've said one or two or fifty times, the reason doesn't matter. What we're left with is the result.
One thing I will say (and I don't know if I've said this fifty times yet, but I'm sure I've said it before): what Martin did after Bukowski died demonstrates quite clearly that he never really understood Bukowski's work. He liked it, yes, obviously, but he didn't understand it. No one who understood it could have done what he did.
