You know, I am going through a lot of mid-70s manuscripts line by line for a project, and comparing them to the posthumous books where necessary, and I just have to say, it might be worse than I thought, and I thought it was pretty bad (as my endlessly monotonous posts on the matter have proven).Martin's junior college creative writing class idiocy.
You did, more or less - but it can't be said often enough.Oh wait, have I said all of this before?
Outwith the publishers is anyone defending John Martin? It's interesting to read roni's post with Martin's defense of the situation in the letter of 2011, in which he refers to the relationship between editor/author as one of collaboration, which begs the question by which means of collaboration is he referring to since Bukowski's death - nightly visitations in dreams??Any arguments and defense of - or apology for - Martin have absolutely no validity. He is a butcher and a literary criminal. That will be his final legacy when all of the boot-lickers and apologists are buried and forgotten.
It isn't a knee jerk reaction, it's based on analysis over several years and a thousand poems. You don't have to believe it or accept it. You believing it or not doesn't change or fix anything.I don't agree with trashing the whole of the posthumous work as a knee jerk reaction...
You forgot the period that ends the sentence there.Calling it rape/ butcher/literary criminal is I suppose accurate
No need to be sexist. ;)You forgot the period that ends the sentence there.
Yessir and that's why I like it.This forum is sexist, misogynistic and a probable front for the KKK.
I thought only porn came out of Chatsworth.Oh, didn't you get the memo?
This forum is sexist, misogynistic and a probable front for the KKK. It's controlled from the shadows by a secretive group of ultra-rich white men (or hundreds of puppet user accounts controlled by a lone megalomaniac - no one can be sure)...Bilderbergs, Illuminati, Vatican - that kind of shit.
So obviously, no girls allowed!
I would say to them, grind this.some loser sitting in his mother's basement with an axe to grind.
HA! Strike![...] "Princess Tina" he's referring to was a ship [...]
I don't think that Martin didn't know 'Princess Tina' was a ship.That "Princess Tina" bit clearly shows it's been edited and changed by somebody who did´nt know "Princess Tina" was a ship...
Well, he's no longer editing the new releases. What does that tell you?Hope at least once he met with such honest but much deserved opinion stuck into his face.
Actually, it may have been Lenny Bruce who said "airbrushed the cock and balls off the Christ child," but CB could have said it as well. And I agree with everything you've said here. It was a trade-off. A tough call. A longshot for broke players, as Buk did in fact say.There are distinct weaknesses on both sides of the coin (and the coin's sides are all too human, I'm afraid). Martin wanted Buk on the reading lists of schools & colleges and so he 'airbrushed the cock & balls off of the Christ child' as Buk may have put it.
It IS disturbing that JM evidently DID edit the posthumous works. I mean, at that point, there would have been no rationale, and further, Buk was no longer in any position to protest. That's a tough pill to swallow.That is amazing, isn't it? Buk was so prolific Martin didn't have to even edit as a (normal) editor might. He could have just left all the post death work as manuscripts, acknowlge it as such and be proud. Apparently not. Martin...what a dick.
You're missing the point. There was no "airbrushing" when Bukowski was alive. The books published while he was alive (the ones that made him famous, incidentally) are relatively untouched. If Martin's goal was as you suggest, how do you explain that?Martin wanted Buk on the reading lists of schools & colleges and so he 'airbrushed the cock & balls off of the Christ child' as Buk may have put it.
It doesn't?what he did at the end doesn't discredit or invalidate what he did before...
That's a good question. I'm not sure what distribution rights he had over his own work. That would now be in the hands of the estate, I imagine.I didn't know BSP had global distribution. I thought Buk sold foreign rights to publishers specific to each country that purchased them. Was that through Martin or did all foreign rights belong to Hank?
I wrote Martin the letter well after Buk had passed away. This would have been in the late 90s early 00s, while I had been listening and comparing Buk's spoken word poems (the earlier recordings) while reading the written word (as cited in Black Sparrow) and I became curious as to why there were differences.You're missing the point.
You've got some good points, Jordan.i don't think you need to argue that martin "made" bukowski to acknowledge that martin's work at BSP is a tremendous contribution to literature and culture.
He could have kept "milking" without resorting to "editing" Buk's poetry, milking (I believe) was not the reason.when bsp's book-cowski died, JM resorted to his editing to keep milking...
Does a bear shit in the woods?'mjp' ... Are you a writer?
'BukFan Brad,' if you're reading this thread and don't know what my 'problem' is with 'Black Sparrow,' then I don't 'know' what to 'tell' you.'mjp' what is your problem with 'Black Sparrow'?
Now finally I understand what your real problem is, mjp. It has nothing to do with edited or deleted or raped poetry from Bukowski, no, it's just that YOUR poetry has been rejected by John Martin. Continuously, I suppose.'mjp' what is your problem with 'Black Sparrow'? Are you a writer? Did you get rejected by them or something?