2 Flies (1 Viewer)

[Jason Raimondo]

"A Report Upon the Consumption of Myself"

Hello,

I'm looking for ideas and interpretations so I can write an essay on this poem. Is it about revenge, lost love, Marxist theory? Any ideas? When the speaker mentions "holding you in Bayonne" what does he mean? Any help and I will be grateful.

Jedbo

 

[roni]

... When the speaker mentions "holding you in Bayonne" what does he mean?

Bayonne is a city in France, close to the Pyrenees.
you pass it on your way to Northern Spain.

 

[Jason Raimondo]

I am doing an analysis of 2 Flies for a lit class, and if ANYONE has ANY insight into the poem, or knows of legitimate or even informal criticism of this poem, I would love to get some help finding it. Nothing on my college library database, and nothing on the Hillsborough County Florida public library database. HELP!!

 

[Father Luke]

Sounds like you've found a niche.
Sorry I have no insight, just a quite appreciation.

All the best.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

Bayonne is also a City in New Jersey on New York Bay that has a large military ocean terminal.

 

[hank solo]

Have you ever been in a room with a couple of flies? Try to imagine what that's like for a moment... :rolleyes:

 

[CRBSMILE]

from the flies POV...

 

[mjp]

Is it about revenge, lost love, Marxist theory?

Yes!

 

[Father Luke]

Does it have anything to do with Flies?

 

[CRBSMILE]

WHO is flying? Are they going to Bayonne? Why?

 

[Jason Raimondo]

Boy did this ever go off track. 2 Flies has nothing to do with Bayonne. It's about a man who is annoyed by 2 flies. I believe that the whole poem is a metaphor for the conflicts between society and outcasts. I was hoping for responses along those lines. A- for effort. F- for relevance

 

[CRBSMILE]

oops. I always was a shity student.

 

[Father Luke]

The two flies from Bayonne

Boy did this ever go off track. 2 Flies has nothing to do with Bayonne. It's about a man who is annoyed by 2 flies. I believe that the whole poem is a metaphor for the conflicts between society and outcasts. I was hoping for responses along those lines. A- for effort. F- for relevance

Oh.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Boy did this ever go off track. 2 Flies has nothing to do with Bayonne. It's about a man who is annoyed by 2 flies. I believe that the whole poem is a metaphor for the conflicts between society and outcasts. I was hoping for responses along those lines. A- for effort. F- for relevance

WTF? Oh I'm sorry these numb skulls are not cooperating helping you with your fucking homework.
I'll get right on it as soon as I have time.

 

[1fsh2fsh]

I'll get right on it as soon as I have time.

yes, and we all know how time flies :eek:

 

[bospress.net]

Are Jedbo and Jason Raimondo in the same class?

Bill

 

[CRBSMILE]

Maybe they are 2 flies buzzing about a room, being swatted at...
Where IS that fucking spray?

 

[Purple Stickpin]

WTF? Oh I'm sorry these numb skulls are not cooperating helping you with your fucking homework.

Both poems are about whores, drinking, being down and out, writing, being suicidal, loving cats, hating people, arguing with god, bad editors, filthy gutters, academics and racetrack announcers who call neck and neck races by the names of the scotch bottles on the second shelf from the bottom.

 

[Father Luke]

I thought it might have been about the landlady.
I'm still not sure how the flies come into this.

 

[marina del rey]

Boy did this ever go off track. 2 Flies has nothing to do with Bayonne. It's about a man who is annoyed by 2 flies. I believe that the whole poem is a metaphor for the conflicts between society and outcasts. I was hoping for responses along those lines. A- for effort. F- for relevance

Since you're giving out grades, chalk me up for an F- in the "Give a damn about Jason Raimondo's homework" category.

 

[Billville]

Both poems are about whores, drinking, being down and out, writing, being suicidal, loving cats, hating people, arguing with god, bad editors, filthy gutters, academics and racetrack announcers who call neck and neck races by the names of the scotch bottles on the second shelf from the bottom.

I'd go with this. Anything else you might be looking for, i.e Marxist theory, Feminist theory, reader Response theory or any other bullshit they try to teach you in school doesn't apply here. You picked the wrong poet. What you see is what you get with Buk.

 

[mjp]

Are Jedbo and Jason Raimondo in the same class?

They are now - as if by some sort of magic - the same user, in the same thread. Technology and reason wins again!

 

[Jason Raimondo]

Well, that's what this post was about, I thought maybe somebody else had some ideas about the poem. Unlike many of Bukowski's poems, this one seems to carry more than just surface value. In roughly 50 years of writing poetry, I think it is safe to say that his THOUSANDS of poems can not be summed up in whores, booze, and hatred for humanity. In fact I was thinking that as a young man living in the paranoid US at the time of WWII with a German accent, and acne vulgaris that Bukowski probably adopted these raunchy views out of feeling outcasted by society. Having acne vulgaris must have made him feel like people looked at him with disgust. The same disgust that they look to whores, bums and flies with. Meaning... that there is more to Bukowski then what you see is what you get. So, you should probably stick your uppity opinion, and gimme a break.

 

[Jason Raimondo]

I think you're wrong, and I think that the lack of real critique on Bukowski is because acadamia is filled with assholes that think they would be wasting their time on Bukowski because they read one or two poems on some get fucked web site, and decided that they understood what the man was all about.

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Oh, if you would have told us that to begin with we would have been much nicer. You could have gone to the New Blood section and started a thread and introduced yourself (or selves). That way we wouldn't be so sarcastic and fuck with you like I believe we have. The brilliant people on the forum will do your homework for you and enlighten the hell out of you, but you need to earn it, just a little. Let us know who you are and how much you love Bukowski.

I don't drink this early.

 

[1fsh2fsh]

Unlike many of Bukowski's poems, this one seems to carry more than just surface value. Meaning... that there is more to Bukowski then what you see is what you get.

:p ok gang, let's get reading....again.

 

[Father Luke]

Two Flies from Bayone - pt. two

Are Jedbo and Jason Raimondo in the same class?

They are now - as if by some sort of magic - the same user, in the same thread. Technology and reason wins again!

I'm confused. Jason and Jedbo are flies?

 

[Gerard K H Love]

But not flies on the wall.

I need to get a copy of that poem. I feel I'm missing something here.

 

[Jason Raimondo]

Just for clarity, I'm not Jebdo. I am not sure how my name and his/her message got combined. I am not sure what poem Jebdo is working with. I chose 2 flies because it looks like an earlier and more interpretive work. I have enjoyed reading Bukowski for the last couple of weeks, but I am not a long time fan. A group of friends recomended Bukowski when I commented that I have not really enjoyed the poetry portion of my lit class. I'm a 27 yr old nursing student, was a medic in the Army for 8 yrs. I enjoy writing, and reading, I like early Bob Dylan, and a pile of Eastern European writers, dostoyevsky, Kafka, Bolgakov, etc. I think that bukowski's poems are his attempt to make society look people in the face that they have ignored. I think that in 2 flies he feels that he is one of the flies, and the narrator is society. The narrator tries to ignore the flies, and rationalizes why it is not his problem that they are flies. His continued rationalizations lead to violence when he destroys one fly, and pacifies the other. I really think the bulk of his work is just an attempt to get society to look flies like himself in the face, and quit ignoring the aspects of life that aren't so beautiful. I might be way off, and I don't wish to post my entire paper because some jack off is likely to come here to do some homework and turn my shit in.

 

[Father Luke]

I need to get a copy of that poem.

Two flies is a great pome, yes. It's rather hard to find anything written about it, however. From what I hear.

 

[Jason Raimondo]

so truely NO, I don't want anyone to do my homework, but this forum looked like a nice place to exchange ideas with people who know Bukowski better than I have gotten to know him in 3 weeks of research. If you are familiar with 2 flies then let me know what insights you might have, and if not then maybe just knowing Bukowski is enough to offer up some insight. I just don't like turning in a skid mark of a paper because I neglected to cover all of my bases. I would pursue a Lit degree as I do love to write, but writers don't need the degree, just the talent and exposure, so I will make my money nursing, maybe use the wierd situations in the hospital to gain some new perspectives, and inspiration for some writing and do my thing until I die. If you're cool with that then help me out. If you think this is some shit slinging forum like the crapfest on aol then please also let me know so I can stop checking my posts.
Thanks

I need to get a copy of that poem.

Two flies is a great pome, yes. It's rather hard to find anything written about it, however. From what I hear.

man you are right. I found no real criticisms on Bukowski's poems. It's like he is completely ignored by academics. I just have to interpret it on my own, but its kind of cool this way because I don't have anyone elses slant on my analysis

 

[Gerard K H Love]

Just for clarity, I'm not Jebdo. I am not sure how my name and his/her message got combined. ................................... and I don't wish to post my entire paper because some jack off is likely to come here to do some homework and turn my shit in.

Yeah, that sucks when other people use your ideas for their own personal gain.

I think you should hang out here for a long time, you'll be okay. I can see a good side of you, like the way you are hanging in right now. Let us get to know you some more. Do you have a dog, a cat or just flies?
Seriously this is a good place. Welcome.


Let the record show, I did not see those last two posts from our new friend.

 

[mjp]

what god puts these
lost things upon me?

 

[hank solo]

man you are right. I found no real criticisms on Bukowski's poems. It's like he is completely ignored by academics. I just have to interpret it on my own, but its kind of cool this way because I don't have anyone elses slant on my analysis

Your own interpretation is an interesting one, and as valid as any other. I say go with what you have. I'm not much for this type of analysis, but if you really want to read some academic criticism try the books mentioned in these threads...

Against The American Dream: Essays on Bukowski

Searching critical book on Buk's writing

Literary Criticism of Buk's Stuff?

Books about Bukowski

 

[David]

...classical music, pain over lost love, being alone, horse racing, bars, writers he admires, summertime in Los Angeles....

 

[Billville]

... I don't wish to post my entire paper because some jack off is likely to come here to do some homework and turn my shit in.

It's definitely a re-occurring problem around here. I wish the moderators could control that sort of behavior better.

 

[james]

hello jason, and welcome. you must understand that, usually, when people come around here asking for something, if they do get it they promptly disappear. this is why you are not getting the response you probably expected. but you seem to know your stuff and have stuck around, so kudos. the poem you mentioned is definitely a good one. upon re-reading it, i can see your analogy, but i just don't see buk sitting down, thinking, alright, one fly is this, one is that, etc. maybe subconsciously he somehow meant what you say, but i don't think it's intentional. that's just me. but i do like your interpretation though, and i say go with it if that's what you feel...

 

[the only good poet]

bukowski wrote 2 flies not long after the encounter with them. the potential was there, and he padded it out. but there is the close observations, and he was aware there could be implications. how's that for a poet!

2 flies! how about 40,000?

 

[Erik]

[...] i just don't see buk sitting down, thinking, alright, one fly is this, one is that, etc. maybe subconsciously he somehow meant what you say, but i don't think it's intentional. [...]

A poet is a person who consciously lets his subconsciousthoughts roam freely.
He then consciously structures the result on paper, and hey presto! there's the poem.
Subconsciousness, on its own, will get you nowhere...

 

[roni]

your interpretation, Jason Rai, is very interesting.

only - i know of no poem by Buk, where he talks as "I" and does not really mean himself.
so the "I" in the poem would rather be him than society, which makes the flies Not him.

BUT - in the last lines he shows, that there IS something similar between him and the remaining fly. a tie that binds. ("woven together") and that he came aware of it only because he killed the other fly which changed the whole situation.

i can see hanksolos point:

Have you ever been in a room with a couple of flies? Try to imagine what that's like for a moment...

i can imagine Buk sitting at the typer, trying to write, being disturbed by these two flies (literally) and unable to concentrate on anything else.

so, he starts to write about the flies. the whole 2 / 3rd of the poem comes like a simple description of what really happens. no deeper meenings, i'd say. except being seriously nerved by these tiny suckers.

then suddenly, after killing one, things change and he (the "I"-person) realizes that (as well as the remaining fly does). and even though he still describes in a natural way, it has become something spiritual.

i'd say the two major quotes to show these two 'parts' of the poem are:

"other men suffer dictates of empire, tragic love ... I suffer insects."
(this, to me, has something like: "It's not the big things that send a man to a madhouse...")

and then:

"we are woven together in the air and the living; it is late for both of us."
(that last sentence could refer to the "I"-persons late insight, for which one living creature had to die first, as well as he and the fly are 'late in life' meaning 'closer to death than to birth'.)

or maybe i'm wrong.