Barbara Fry wrote poetry too (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cirerita
- Start date
YIKES!:eek:
That "poem" makes me think Barbara
Thanks for sharing C. !
(I mean it! ;))
The reference to Borodin is interesting.
Buk's poem was published in 58 the database says.
So Fry did have some influence on the man it seems...
That "poem" makes me think Barbara
Thanks for sharing C. !
(I mean it! ;))
The reference to Borodin is interesting.
Buk's poem was published in 58 the database says.
So Fry did have some influence on the man it seems...
Who is Barbara Fry? Those words "feel" great and the chain of images is massively effective but at first-reading I sense an efforted verse. A less than spontaneous meandering - recurring tricks that reveal a small dimensionality. The manual typer font always feels like home...Yes, I'll be be looking for more. Thanks.
The line "i have forgotten the smell of young puppies" is pure poetic genius.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
Bukowski's first wife (if you don't count Jane). She was the editor of Harlequin.
Bill
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
I've never seen one of Fry's poems before, so it's difficult to judge her talent. I don't care much for this poem, however. All I get from it, is that she prefer cows and nature to city life, just like a lot of people do. The poem seem a bit Bukowskiesque here and there, but that's no big surprise. It also seems a bit constructed as opposed to spontaneous, but maybe it's just a matter of taste.
Thanks, cirerita!
Thanks, cirerita!
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Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Yeah, thanx man. That Barbara's lines can really thump the hills, put the old dog in the storm and the crows on the hills.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
Thanks Abel,
It feels a little, like the next line could be,
and the kitchen sink...
but I liked it somehow.;)
It feels a little, like the next line could be,
and the kitchen sink...
but I liked it somehow.;)
And she had the gall to write a scathing rejection letter?
you can take the girl out of the country, but, you can't take, etc.
Please.
Whoever found this poem...
Please respond to this, and afterward perhaps contact me.
You will not regret it.
I am her grand-daughter.
Whoever found this poem...
Please respond to this, and afterward perhaps contact me.
You will not regret it.
I am her grand-daughter.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
fascinating....
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
As a three time poetry contest judge (it's an ugly job but somebody has to do it), I'd put this in the "maybe" pile, which is much smaller than the "no" pile and much bigger than the "yes" pile. It's not all bad, it's not all good. There are some good parts, some junky parts. It could be edited down into a better poem. Based solely on this one poem, I don't think she was savy enough about poetry to be editing other people's work, or selecting/rejecting it. But it's a fascinating window into her mind, none the less.
I'd like to hear more from her grand daughter.
I'd like to hear more from her grand daughter.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Who are the Human Vultures?
I am wary about revealing any information concerning my identity or my family on an online forum. Please understand that. When I commented, it was an abrupt, passionate decision. I had to take a couple of days to think before responding.
Thank you for the information about the poem. It was a very moving experience to read it.
I would like to know where the published information about my Grandmother's death was derived from (also the death of one of her "children")... as it is preposterous and offensive. I will not dispute any of the information provided by Bukowski's writings- as it is subject to artistic criticism and the embellishments of fiction (whether he considered it to be auto-biographical is irrelevant). However, the assumptions made about her life after Bukowski are not only irrelevant, but for the most part false.
I regret to reveal much more... I will tell you, though, that my grandfather (the "fisherman"- which is also a bit of a stretch) is dead.
My grandmother had a Corgi, Gerard. Identical to the one in your picture.
As a fellow scholar, I commend the dedication many of you have to your research. In light of this, I hope you can understand my disappointment in the academic community responsible for portraying rumor to be fact.
Furthermore, my family is not a lost literary archive, nor should be be objectified as such. When you go digging for the dead, you'll inevitably find the living. The tragedies of my family have been fabricated and purged all over the internet. It's disconcerting, to say the least... but bittersweet in the sense that some of her art is still out there.
It's strange to see all of you criticize the poem. I hope you know what it feels like one day... to not dissect a poem for its mechanics, or aesthetic techniques, or "genius..." but to have a work of art transcend itself, climb into your soul, and spiritually eviscerate you.
It was perfect, and beautiful, to me, because it was my grandmother's. Regardless of how it was done, I could feel her when I read it. Thank you for the priceless experience. Any further information about the sources would be helpful. Please do so privately. I've been trying to change my settings.
Thank you for the information about the poem. It was a very moving experience to read it.
I would like to know where the published information about my Grandmother's death was derived from (also the death of one of her "children")... as it is preposterous and offensive. I will not dispute any of the information provided by Bukowski's writings- as it is subject to artistic criticism and the embellishments of fiction (whether he considered it to be auto-biographical is irrelevant). However, the assumptions made about her life after Bukowski are not only irrelevant, but for the most part false.
I regret to reveal much more... I will tell you, though, that my grandfather (the "fisherman"- which is also a bit of a stretch) is dead.
My grandmother had a Corgi, Gerard. Identical to the one in your picture.
As a fellow scholar, I commend the dedication many of you have to your research. In light of this, I hope you can understand my disappointment in the academic community responsible for portraying rumor to be fact.
Furthermore, my family is not a lost literary archive, nor should be be objectified as such. When you go digging for the dead, you'll inevitably find the living. The tragedies of my family have been fabricated and purged all over the internet. It's disconcerting, to say the least... but bittersweet in the sense that some of her art is still out there.
It's strange to see all of you criticize the poem. I hope you know what it feels like one day... to not dissect a poem for its mechanics, or aesthetic techniques, or "genius..." but to have a work of art transcend itself, climb into your soul, and spiritually eviscerate you.
It was perfect, and beautiful, to me, because it was my grandmother's. Regardless of how it was done, I could feel her when I read it. Thank you for the priceless experience. Any further information about the sources would be helpful. Please do so privately. I've been trying to change my settings.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
H V you are safe here. It would be nice of you to share some information about your grand mother with us. The private message is secure, but I am not the scholar or researcher to contact. There are many people here who are true Doctors of Bukowski and would appreciate your input.
I had a grandmother from Texas as well.
I had a grandmother from Texas as well.
mjp
Founding member
To suggest that all the information available on Barbara Fry is incorrect, gossip or fabrication and then not set the record straight is rather pointless, isn't it?
Anything you type here will figure prominently in search result for your grandmother. So if you want to set the record straight, this is the ideal place to do it.
Anything you type here will figure prominently in search result for your grandmother. So if you want to set the record straight, this is the ideal place to do it.
bospress.net
www.bospress.net
And Barbara Fry(e) did not need people defending her poems. If she did, then she would not have been a poet. They need to stand on their own and not because her kinfolk said that it made them feel good. Because her Granddaughter has feelings for the poem, does not make a great poem. I'm sure that I wrote some bad, rhyming poetry for my Mom when I was a kid and my Mom loved it, but that would not make it a good poem.
I agree with mjp, though. You have the chance to set the record straight. This forum is THE reference on Bukowski and Barbara figures prominently into that. If you choose to not say anything, then we can only believe what we have read. You have to admit that your Grandmother was hard to track down (as far as research). You can set the record straight.
Bill
I agree with mjp, though. You have the chance to set the record straight. This forum is THE reference on Bukowski and Barbara figures prominently into that. If you choose to not say anything, then we can only believe what we have read. You have to admit that your Grandmother was hard to track down (as far as research). You can set the record straight.
Bill
Throughout the ages, any form of artistic expression has always been up for discussion, good or bad. From Shakespeare to Jackson Pollock to Vincent VanGogh to the the struggling artist/writer who has gotten some recognition, nobody can escape criticism or praise.
That being said, I think the people here, on this forum, have an elevated IQ when it comes to art, music, poetry, et al. From the owner on down, artists are respected in all formats. If it's good, people will say so. If not, people will say so. That doesn't make it good or bad; but rather what people feel about it. IMO, that's a very good and important thing. And as long as the conversation continues, it keeps it alive.
Again, this forum probably has the highest IQ of any I've ever been to when it comes to previously said art forms. And I'm proud to be a member here.
Pax,
Munch
That being said, I think the people here, on this forum, have an elevated IQ when it comes to art, music, poetry, et al. From the owner on down, artists are respected in all formats. If it's good, people will say so. If not, people will say so. That doesn't make it good or bad; but rather what people feel about it. IMO, that's a very good and important thing. And as long as the conversation continues, it keeps it alive.
Again, this forum probably has the highest IQ of any I've ever been to when it comes to previously said art forms. And I'm proud to be a member here.
Pax,
Munch
HV, I understand the impulse to protect your grandmother. I have the same reaction with members of my family (at least the ones I like), but your grandmother made herself a public figure by becoming a poet and editor. every poet takes the same risk. I have a blog and I'm called all sorts of things on that in the comments to my posts, but I was prepared for that. many people here are writers, artists, have blogs etc. and get negative feedback regularly. it's part of the deal.
but I'm sure I don't need to tell you that from what I've read, your grandmother had no problem in defending herself. and I'm also sure that you've read here that not everyone had a positive reaction to your grandmother. but that's human nature. not everyone likes everyone.
but, my point: we may have stuff wrong here about Ms. Fry. it's very likely we do. and to repeat the mantra that's cropped up in the last several posts: set us straight.
but I'm sure I don't need to tell you that from what I've read, your grandmother had no problem in defending herself. and I'm also sure that you've read here that not everyone had a positive reaction to your grandmother. but that's human nature. not everyone likes everyone.
but, my point: we may have stuff wrong here about Ms. Fry. it's very likely we do. and to repeat the mantra that's cropped up in the last several posts: set us straight.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
At least do it for the sake of the corgis.
(it's funny I just noticed PurpleStickpin has a little sign under his name that says "I'm not him". It makes sense now.)
(it's funny I just noticed PurpleStickpin has a little sign under his name that says "I'm not him". It makes sense now.)
ok, we get it..you have a high I.Q.........
It's always made sense to me, not being Purple Stickpin and all. Even the corgi knew that! :eek:
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Human Vulture; PLEASE.
The Corgi's eyes look possessed!
But what a fine lookin Corgi he is!:)
But what a fine lookin Corgi he is!:)
Rekrab
Usually wrong.
HumanVultures: I'm not surprised that people criticized the poem. They will give their honest opinions on any literary work posted here. Would you expect less of them? The fact that it is a published poem that has been around for decades makes it fair game.
You'll be more likely to learn more about your grandmother by gaining some distance and not being hostile to the members of this forum. Yes, she's your grandma, and you love her, but she's not a great poet and is largely forgotten aside from the Bukowski connection. There are people here with incredible collections of rare, obscure old literary publications. They may have other copies of your grandmother's poems, but if you come on all pissed off, reading us the riot act, why should anyone bother to dig out those publications, scan the poems, and post them, all of which is work? You can catch more flies with honey, etc.
And please, do set the record straight on the facts. This is the place to do it. You're the one with the facts.
You'll be more likely to learn more about your grandmother by gaining some distance and not being hostile to the members of this forum. Yes, she's your grandma, and you love her, but she's not a great poet and is largely forgotten aside from the Bukowski connection. There are people here with incredible collections of rare, obscure old literary publications. They may have other copies of your grandmother's poems, but if you come on all pissed off, reading us the riot act, why should anyone bother to dig out those publications, scan the poems, and post them, all of which is work? You can catch more flies with honey, etc.
And please, do set the record straight on the facts. This is the place to do it. You're the one with the facts.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
That is fear, fear of the old cat we had back then. She died a few weeks before the picture and he was still afraid.
Thanks for getting it. But my point was that this is a very informed and opinionated forum. Taking a swipe at me is fine. I'm fair game.
I agree. Hopefully HumanVultures can make an attempt to look at this situation objectively, and understand most of us here only want the facts. If there's a record to be set straight - the ball is in his or her court. Unless the real Purple Stickpin joins us. . .
;)
It appears my observation has been misinterpreted by a couple of people. Perhaps I did not make myself clear enough. I thought that when I mentioned the poem to be beautiful, or perfect "to me," I elucidated the subjective quality of the statement. I have an education in poetic criticism and am familiar with the world of art. What I wanted to get across was that as a critic, it was incredibly interesting to experience a poem in a completely different light, in a completely different manner. It was an observation. Not a defense. Not even a criticism. Imagine if you found a long-lost poem by a dead relative online! It is strange to see people criticize it- but in a cool way. It's hard to explain. None of criticisms made by any of you were out of line.
I apologize if I somehow offended you, Bill. Your tone seems... well...really condescending, which is fine for a forum discussion, but not a professional atmosphere... which is one reason I'm not sure about using a forum as the tool for the corrections. We're all having a conversation. I'm guilty of writing casually here. Is it really the right place?
I am not considering anyone in this forum as the academic community responsible for the rumors. Nor is "all" of the information fabricated, only "some." What I would like to know and correct is "who" provided the information about my Grandmother in India and her death. Nobody asked us about it, that's for sure.
I am waiting to provide detailed information for two specific reasons, aside from those given above: 1) I have started an academic research project concerning these matters, and need to discuss this with the Chair before releasing info. 2) (and more importantly) I need to get the green-light from the rest of my family. I feel really urgent about discussing this, but my family is more reticent to move quickly on these matters.
Ideally, I would love to share with you all. I would also love to have such a dedicated group of people help me find more of these sources.
For now I can share some things with you that are not compromising anyone's trust...
You're right... she was a mysterious woman. She never talked about her past. She rarely explained anything she did- and as you can see, she did a lot of random things that begged explanation. She was oddly both artistic and hardened. Aside from drawing and writing, she also hunted and butchered her own meat in Alaska. She did write children's books, but for the most part, her career in Aniak consisted of teaching young Inuit children.
In the poem above, she's talking about her family land in Texas. The cottonwood trees shed, like snow, and grew in the boggy regions. I'm sure some of you have deduced this already, but I believe the poem is about her move to L.A., with a romantic line dedicated to Bukowski. To be honest, no one in my family could picture her in the city. The accounts of her being miserable are definitely correct :) Unfortunately, the cottonwoods were eventually cut down by a cousin in the family in order to increase property value by creating grasslands.
Yes, it's in several of them. I'm hoping to contact Sounes and figure out where he got the info. on her life after Bukowski.
Once again, I'm terribly sorry about the criticism misunderstanding... really, that's not what I meant at all! Did you guys happen to miss the parts where I profusely thanked everyone?
And I'm certainly not blaming anyone here for what's happened. I'm referring to the information published in books and online biographies. I read some online page the other day (which was full of garbage... even got the dates wrong) that said she was decapitated by religious zealots... some people are really creative. Once again, I would like to correct this, but need to clear it with some people before I jump in head first.
Once again, I'm terribly sorry about the criticism misunderstanding... really, that's not what I meant at all! Did you guys happen to miss the parts where I profusely thanked everyone?
And I'm certainly not blaming anyone here for what's happened. I'm referring to the information published in books and online biographies. I read some online page the other day (which was full of garbage... even got the dates wrong) that said she was decapitated by religious zealots... some people are really creative. Once again, I would like to correct this, but need to clear it with some people before I jump in head first.
