Bukowski and Fantasy (1 Viewer)

Hi, new here. I'm 21 and been lovin' bukowski for a good 5 years now. Just had a quick question on Buk's take on fantasy writing. I know some of his short stories and stuff are way out there and that he dug the imaginative, but can anyone recall his personal opinions on any sci-fi fantasy work like Tolkien or Douglas Adams? If he had opinions about them at all. Thanks!
 
Very good question. I'm fairly positive he didn't read either Tolkien or Adams, and I don't believe any science fiction of any kind. But you're right: several of the stories cross the line into fantasy. Probably wouldn't call it "science fiction" since I don't believe he ever really tackles scientific themes or uses the devices of science fiction writers. What stories were you thinking of?
 
In what I've read of him (not everything), I don't recall that he ever mentioned any sci-fi writers by name. But that he gave some of his characters super-powers (such as the ability to fly) is a similar kind of imaginative writing - and I enjoyed the distinction that his fantasies sometimes took place in a bar room setting that one might not expect, and that was a twist for me. I would guess that Bukowski might have read some of these writers in passing - he would rifle libraries for books - but they were not an obvious influence on him unless they were more influential than he cared to admit. I think overall that real life was more fantastic and bizarre than fiction.
 
Hey, thanks for such quick responses. I'm going to think about this topic a bit more and get back to you with more thoughts. But in answer to "what stories I was thinking of" I finished Hot Water Music recently and almost every story seemed to stretch or break reality, more so than any of his other work, and wondered if he was influenced by fantasy or surreal fiction at any point.

Also, I watched Return of the King for the first time today and wanted to know what Buk would think of good vs evil presented in such fantastic and out there ways. Hence the topic.

One more thing. I'd really like to know what he thought of Star Wars. He had to have seen it or at least heard about it. It was HUGE in his times. (that's what she said) Thanks again!
 
That's nuts! Small world. I forgot about Bradbury. One of my favorites. That would make them a year or two apart in school then? Did Buk ever mention him or vice versa? I bet he, Buk, liked his dark stuff. "The Night" and "The Lake" by Bradbury are standouts for me. He wrote about loss in ways that could scare you.
 
Hi,
Bradbury graduated in 1938 and Buk graduated a year later. They probably did not know each other. They certainly traveled in different circles. I don't recall Buk ever mentioning Bradbury, but I could be wrong. Probably Abel can confirm.

Bill
 
I believe Buk saw "Star Wars." There's a photo of him wearing a "Star Wars" t-shirt and I even recall reading somewhere that he cried during the film...

I just thought of Bradbury's story "The Pedestrian." That eerie, deserted, lonely LA feeling. Bradbury is a lyricist, and Buk is too, but in a bare bones, stripped down way.
 
Bukowski in a Star Wars t-shirt? Are you sure? Sounds far fetched to me...
:rolleyes:
 
You say "fantasy" and "surreal." What about "expressionism"? The German literary movement (also in painting and music) of extreme emotion. As in David Lynch's "Eraserhead" --one of Buk's favorite films. I think this stretching of "reality" to its limits was Buk's thing...Also this weird mixing of reality and imagination--he's in a twilight world where things turn into each other. Also MADNESS....this flirting with the far edges of mental states....
Well, LA is a pretty surreal town.. I remember as a kid a donut shop near where I grew up in Venice which had a GIGANTIC donut on top---I mean like 50 feet in size. Now THAT IS SURREALISM.

Bukowski in a Star Wars t-shirt? Are you sure? Sounds far fetched to me...
:rolleyes:
Hey, Hank Solo, yes, take a look at your tee shirt! Actually I wondered if I had misremembered and it was Linda who had on the shirt... But you are living proof!:)
 
evil doings!

Hey, thanks for such quick responses. I'm going to think about this topic a bit more and get back to you with more thoughts. But in answer to "what stories I was thinking of" I finished Hot Water Music recently and almost every story seemed to stretch or break reality, more so than any of his other work, and wondered if he was influenced by fantasy or surreal fiction at any point.

Funny, that's exactly the book I was thinking of. His imaginative powers just soar and the writing is so utterly relaxed, playful and masterful. I love those stories. But other examples can be found elsewhere, such as The Devil is Hot, from South of No North:

Excerpt:

It was then I noticed a roaring sound coming from a nearby building. A tape or record, no doubt. There was a barker out front: "Yes, ladies and gentlemen, Inside, Inside here . . . we actually have captured the devil! He is on display to see with your own eyes! Think, just for a quarter, twenty-five cents, you can actually see the devil . . . the biggest loser of all time! The loser of the only revolution ever attempted in Heaven!" [end]

The devil gets loose, shags his girlfriend, and the protagonist has to find a way to get rid of the son-of-a-bitch.

Also, I watched Return of the King for the first time today and wanted to know what Buk would think of good vs evil presented in such fantastic and out there ways. Hence the topic.

He talks about good and evil at one of his live poetry readings on Hostage. He said something to the effect that he believed in evil because evil was different than the goodness of "accepted beauty" - giving the impression that he felt that what most people call "evil" was unlimited and "good" was more limited and contained.

On the Bukowski Tapes he also talks about the evil of such men as Hitler and Idi Amin, the former military dictator and president of Uganda. But keep in mind that he has his own particular slant on such things as evil, and genius, because he's talking about their particular kind of "genius" from the viewpoint of his own particular genius. Mine are not literal transcriptions of his words, so consult the sources themselves if you're that interested.

It's hard to say how Bukowski might have felt about The Return of the Kings because he had died 9 years earlier than the release of the film. He wasn't much of a film goer and I doubt that he would have watched it anyway. But he talks about the relationship of good and evil elsewhere, and some of his short stories are about the truly dark side of human nature, such as murder and rape. So he was acutely aware of evil and got into the head of some of these dangerous losers. The stories can be quite disturbing, such 'The Killers' and 'Break In' from South of No North. There's pure, unregenerate evil, because the killers are brutal and get away with the murders. Bukowski spares the readers from none of the callous brutality, and I find them particularly unsettingly.

One more thing. I'd really like to know what he thought of Star Wars. He had to have seen it or at least heard about it. It was HUGE in his times. (that's what she said) Thanks again!

Good question! Wouldn't know about that one.

Best wishes, Poptop
 
Thanks for all your replies guys or gals. I'll be sure to keep on reading Buk since he's the best out there. And about Eraserhead...I'll always remember his story about cable tv and how the first thing he ever watched on it was Eraserhead and was really excited for it, thinking all the programming would be like that. Ha ha. Poor Buk, can never catch a break.
 
Hi, new here. I'm 21 and been lovin' bukowski for a good 5 years now. Just had a quick question on Buk's take on fantasy writing. I know some of his short stories and stuff are way out there and that he dug the imaginative, but can anyone recall his personal opinions on any sci-fi fantasy work like Tolkien or Douglas Adams? If he had opinions about them at all. Thanks!

Not science-fiction but alcohol-fiction. The final frontier of being inebbriated in bars and cheap hotel rooms. A genre- as you kids call it- of being at a less than full mental capacity and feeling damn good about it. No, that would be -feeling damn great about it. Of course a totally uninhibited expression of both feeling and opinion. I sense that igloo is just having fun with us here and until he gives us 40 or 50 sincere posts I will be reserved in my trust of him.
Sincerely yours,
The Spirit of Truth and good humor and my little dog;)
as he said,"you fuckin' piss ant!"
 
Good question! Wouldn't know about that one.
You would know if you bothered to read the posts before yours. Just saying.


Funny that this topic came up, because there is a sci-fi-y (or futuristic or apocalyptic or...but definitely unusual for Bukowski) story, The Way It Happened, in the upcoming City Lights book.
 
I sense that igloo is just having fun with us here and until he gives us 40 or 50 sincere posts I will be reserved in my trust of him.


Sorry. Looks like you've been found guilty
until proven innocent.

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Welcome.
 
Once bitten twice shy I suppose,.. welcome igloo, from a former Michigander. (damn, that is just the stupidest word....) ok, michiganite?.... ah hell, just welcome.
 
... Actually I wondered if I had misremembered and it was Linda who had on the shirt...

I seem to recall, there's a picture, where they BOTH wear a Star Wars T-Shirt. Will look this up, if I remember, when back home tonight.

I'm pretty sure, he wouldn't be interested in reading Tolkien nor Adams at all. Not his kinda literature.

I also would be very surprised to hear, that he Really has seen the movie Star Wars. Even more if he cried. What's your source for him crying when watching it?

I sure can see him reading Bradbury. Or Huxley (which he mentions) or Orwell. But that's not really 'Science Fiction' or 'Fantasy'. (oh, btw - I think Douglas Adams isn't Science Fiction either. He USES some topics and motifs of the genre, but basically, it's as much 'Science Fiction' as 'Life of Brian' is a movie about the New Testament.)



He sure has some stories with fantastic elements, like 'Six Inches', 'Fuck Machine', 'Gut-Wringing Machine', 'Animal Crackers in my Soup', etc.

But these aren't 'fantasy' or 'Science Fiction' either.
 
I'm pretty sure I saw Darth Vader wearing a Bukowski t-shirt. But Bukowski wearing a Star Wars t-shirt? Now, that's pretty unbelievable.
 
the pic isn't in 'Das wars'. so i ain't sure anymore.
still i like to believe, i've seen Buk with a Star Wars T-shirt at an Other place than Hank Solos icon.

igloo:
you see now, Gerard IS a nice guy.
now it's your turn, to rush to the 'new blood' section to introduce yourself.
this may sound a little conservative. but we like to know each other a little here.
 
... Actually I wondered if I had misremembered and it was Linda who had on the shirt...

it Was Linda - not Hank. my fault...
(the pic i remembered from 'Das Wars' was with both wearing a Bukowski-Shirt! Not Star Wars. Still a MIGHTY FORCE though.)

Buk-Linda-StarWars.jpg


still - it's obviously the same shirt as the one on HS's avatar.
so...
 
Bukowski in a James Bond film? Are you sure? Sounds far fetched to me...
:rolleyes:
 

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