• If you start a thread here you have permission to edit the thread and your posts indefinitely. So if the status of your sale or auction changes, please come back and update the thread.

Forgeries on eBay [not specific Buk content] (1 Viewer)

I know there have been some good discussion on forgeries and such, as it pertains to certain signed Buk/Fante items, but I'm curious if there is any actual legal recourse for people posting legitimately fraudulent items.

I'd think it falls under the category of 'mail fraud', which carries a penalty of up to $1m and/or 30 yrs. Pretty intense for a forged book.

I bring this up because recently someone posted a signed first of 'The Road' by Cormac McCarthy on eBay. This would be a miraculous feat, as McCarthy talked about signed copies in an interview in 2009:

WSJ: Why don't you sign copies of "The Road"
CM: There are signed copies of the book, but they all belong to my son John, so when he turns 18 he can sell them and go to Las Vegas or whatever. No, those are the only signed copies of the book.
WSJ: How many did you have?
CM: 250. So occasionally I get letters from book dealers or whoever that say, "I have a signed copy of the 'The Road,'" and I say, "No. You don't."

I sent the seller an email saying there's no way this is a signed copy, and that either he got ripped off, which is a drag, or he's a forger and that either way he should pull the listing.

Amazingly, the guy did the right thing the guy responded with "you need to read my feedback, I bought this from a reputable seller, if you don't like this book I have another signed Cormac book available, etc.".

I responded explaining that while he may be a good guy NOW, the second you knowingly pass off a forgery, you're as culpable and evil as the fucker who took pen to title page fraudulently.

Needless to say, I haven't heard anything, and now the bidding is up over $100 so he's obviously not pulling it.

Any thoughts/suggestions on this one? One thought was post a second listing warning people off, but I'd rather have eBay DO something about this. Anyway -- thanks team.

well, it has a C of A, so clearly there's no questioning its authenticity. and you know it's a legit C of A when the author's name is handwritten on it (meaning the dealer has a stack of them and just fills out the name for whatever dubious signature happens to cross his desk).
It kills me when they ask people on Pawn Stars if they have a C of A for whatever dubious signed thing they bring in. Why should any C of A carry any weight whatsoever, when faking them would be so easy? I've never understood why C of As even exist, if not to simply make buyers less nervous about making a risky purchase.
Yah, the hilarious thing is that, I HAVE ONE OF THOSE COA ON A FORGED VONNEGUT BOOK! Same dude, same handwriting etc. I brought that up to the seller too, to no avail.
Hi Dan,
First, notify ebay, but know that they will do NOTHING about it. They not only don't give a shit about abetting a felony, but they make a LOT of money from all of these sellers and their forgeries. I have tried and it has only given me heartburn. There are a couple things that you can do to stop this known forgery from getting sold. 1) Keep emailing him with evidence as to why it is not authentic 2) open up a fake ebay account and put a 10,000 bid on it and then never pay for it. Doing this could actually make him more money as let's say the bidding goes up to 300 and your shill is the winner. He could then offer the book to #2 bidder at their bid of $295 and they could take it. What I remember from my ebay selling days is that 2nd bidders rarely are ever interested once the excitement of the auction is over.

Even if you were able to shut down a really obvious forger, they'd just open up under a different name the next day. Ebay has to know that this is the same person, but pretends that they don't...

C of As are only as good as the person that signs it. If they are a member of ABAA, then they stand behind everything that they sell with a lifetime guarantee of authenticity, per the bylaws of ABAA. The C of A, just puts in writing a right that you already have. A C of A from Jeff Maser, I'd put a lot of weight in. One from an anonymous ebay seller that I don;t know is not worth the ink to print it...

You used to be able to look up the high bidder and contact them. This used to work when someone refused to close a known forgery. I'd wait until the end and then email the winning bidder immediatly letting them know that I was 100% sure that this was a forgery and that I notified the seller to no avail. Now ebay made it impossible to do that as they hide all bidders.

Still, keep up the fight. Even if ebay will not help you (in fact, they make it harder to keep it honest), you can always bug them to death and sabotage their auctions.
I am obligated to point out that shill bidding against alleged forgeries is not only reprehensible, but illegal and possibly immoral. Mr. Phillips does not condone such activity, and furthermore, the views expressed in this thread do not necessarily reflect the views of the management or its subsidiaries.
Also, the seller seems to be in denial. Deep down, they may realize that you're right, but they bought this poor forgery and now that you showed that it is a forgery, they may want to pass it on to another sucker. That is the way of the world, kick the can down the road and visit your bad luck on others as unknowing as you were.

All the evidence that anyone needs to know that this is not only a forgery, but a bad one at that:

Real signature on signed edition being sold by seller
mccarthy authentic.JPG

Forgery below. Completely different feel, misspelled and shaky. Notice the labored "C" in Cormac, the stops and starts at the bottom of the "M" where the forger hesitated and the felt tip pen paused just long enough to "pool". These are the telltale signs of poor forgeries and I could not be more sure that this example below is a poor forgery.
mccarthy forgery.JPG

Really sad. Someone will get taken to the bank on this basement forgery...

you could also make a new account and list an item for sale called "THAT SIGNED COPY OF THE ROAD BY CORMAC MCARTHY IS A FORGERY" and then make the listing all about why that's the case (pretty much just by copying bill's detective work and kilgore's cmac quote). ebay would shut it down (and probably shut you down), but you might deter a couple people and annoy the seller.

even better if 10 fake accounts all did that.

C of As are only as good as the person that signs it. If they are a member of ABAA, then they stand behind everything that they sell with a lifetime guarantee of authenticity, per the bylaws of ABAA. The C of A, just puts in writing a right that you already have. A C of A from Jeff Maser, I'd put a lot of weight in. One from an anonymous ebay seller that I don;t know is not worth the ink to print it... [...]

You're right. That is the value of a C of A.
Well look it this:

Hello, Thanks for your interest in this item. I bought it myself on ebay three years ago. I paid over $500 for the book and until this week was convinced that it was a genuine signed first edition. A number of ebayers have brought to my attention an interview that Mr. McCarthy did with the Wall Street Journal in which he stated that the only copies of The Road he had signed were given to his son. For this reason I have ended the auction early. It pains me to know that I have bought a forgery but all signs point to it. And I do not want to pass this disappointment on to another ebay buyer.

So that's that -- I'm guessing folks on this list had a hand in helping get the listing down. Nice work! Obviously a drag the dude got ripped off, and good he came to his senses on it.
good news. Seems that the seller was honest and got duped. Still, it is so clearly a forgery. The seller should have noticed that it was bad when he bought it back then.
The Y looks wrong. I would say WRONGEST, but that is not a word. A few things look wrong with this, but most troubling is the Y.

IMHO as the kids say...
And that book may be a remainder. That Red mark at the head of the book looks like a remainder mark to me.

It may not be a first printing either. Nothing on that title specifies first printing. so it could be a later printing, unless there is a specific first printing point. Still, a forgery on a first/first is still worthless and frankly, no one would forge on a valuable 1st/1st, so my gut tells me that this is not a good signature and it is on a later printing.

Users who are viewing this thread