Hello to those with an interest the extraordinary, (1 Viewer)

Hello to those with an interest in the extraordinary,

I have been an avid reader all my life, achieved academic and executive status, and would be considered the opposite of Charles Bukowski. I discovered his work about about five years looking through the poetry section in Barnes and Noble. The first book of his that I couldn't put down was "The Last Night of the Earth Poems." Since then I'm working my way through everything he wrote. Some are interesting, some mundane, many insightful, many incredible, and some about me.

I will always be grateful to Bukowski for being who he he was.
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
What does it mean to achieve executive status? I used to be the Controller of a multimillion dollar corporation. I was the President of my own failed small Subchapter S Corporation. Does that count? Does it need to be a publicly traded company to count?

I'm being completely serious. I'm not being argumentative or sarcastic. It has always mystified me. It seems like something that is hard to quantify. It seems to me like the term "Business man". Does that term apply to only those that wear suits or anyone that engages in business? If so, is the homeless squeegee man a business man?

Bill
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
Welcome aboard, redviper! Yes, Bukowski wrote a lot of great poems, but don't forget to read his novels and short story collections. Some of them are great too...
 

mjp

Founding member
What does it mean to achieve executive status?
It means you have the key to the bathroom.


But I have one of those keys, and trust me, it doesn't take much to achieve such awe-inspiring things. In fact, most "executives" could be replaced by a desk fan, or a box of Lemonheads and no one would know the difference.
 
It seems to me that all the original poster was trying to point out is that while he's basically the antithesis of Buk, he can relate to him and really dig and relate to his words. That he pointed out he worked as an executive may seem pretentious, but if it's true, it can't be pretentious, as pretense = falsehood.

I don't know; a guy happens by, explains how he likes Buk despite being one of the guys Buk probably would have hated, and you slam him. What the fuck?

Have a drink and go do something worthwhile. Jeez, when it gets to the point where Jordan is one of the polite members here, we've got a problem. ;)

So welcome, redviper!
 

mjp

Founding member
It's called a barrier to entry.

It means you have to demonstrate that you can take some jostling around before you can come and run - or lie down with - the pack, you dig?



Jesus. At least we don't make them kill somebody.

Oh, and saying you have gained status is certainly pretentious.
 
Got it. But status is a relative term. You have a certain status as a website manager and a separate status as a writer. Bill has a status as a publisher of independent press books. I have a status as a scientist. Even the fucking pope has a certain status as a human being of some kind.

Be it good or bad, it's a status. Picking up the toilet paper caked on the floor or telling someone to buy it. Status.

And if redviper was successful in business, so freaking be it; he acheived a certain status, even if that means he meant he was successful, which is exactly what he meant. Not pretense; reality. You can be annoyed by it, but you cannnot call it pretense if it's true. Of course, I don't know it's true, but you know, benefit of the doubt.

Makes my initial point even more. He was simply trying to indicate the irony of how much he liked Buk relative to what his life has been about. And when he wrote: some of them were about me, he was referring to R.M. Heathercliff, the owner of the dog biscuit factory, the manager of the meat plant with the blunt hook to hang the carcasses on, and the foreman at the light fixture company that wanted all the heavy light fixtures on the top shelf, etc.

And why was I never subjected to this sort of "entry harrasment" to coin a phrase? Hell I would have LOVED it. Chance to blast back, y'know?
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
John;
It was not meant as me busting his balls. I was very seriously asking the question. I thought that I explained that well, but apparently not.

Maybe it was because it was off-topic and moved his welcome thread into another direction.

If that was the case, I apologize.

And welcome to REDVIPER!

Best,
Bill
 
M

Mather

I felt redviper sounded pretentious myself, as if we are supposed to admire whatever "status" means, academic AND executive, while at the same time being completely vague and unverifiable...it may not have been intended that way but most pretentious behavior is not, it's just natural, comes from within...I felt it sort of carried an implication too that nobody around here, Buk's real people, could possible achieve "status" in academia or business. Bill's response was absolutely combative. I thought it was funny.

By the way my name is Mather Schneider and I also have received no tough skin rough-em-ups. However, laying down with the pack is not a specific goal of mine.
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
Mather, you are going to want to lay down when we are all stewing in our juices.

Welcome Red Viper, I have a picture of a couple of red racers mating. Are you a red racer with executive status? Don't let these chuckle heads run you off now. We all love to laugh, especially at your expense. Hang in there and see where this goes. By the way, I too have had the keys, when I was somebody. You like Bukowski so you will be fine here.
 

mjp

Founding member
Got it. But status is a relative term. You have a certain status as a website manager and a separate status as a writer. Bill has a status as a publisher of independent press books. I have a status as a scientist. Even the fucking pope has a certain status as a human being of some kind.
Maybe you missed a key word:

"...saying you have gained status is certainly pretentious. "

And it is.

For him/her to say he/she had achieved success would not be pretentious, because you can tangibly measure "success." Status can only be bestowed onto you by others, and to claim it yourself is, at the very least, cheeky, as the kids say.

By the way my name is Mather Schneider and I also have received no tough skin rough-em-ups.
Well, you did, you just don't realize it. All your posts were set to "global ignore." Then you said a couple of things that weren't just idiotic or troll-y so we took the global ignore off. Now I see that our first impression was probably right. You are only here now tenuously.

However, laying down with the pack is not a specific goal of mine.
That's like saying that you refuse to go to a party that you were not invited to. Cute.
 
M

Mather

Mather, you are going to want to lay down when we are all stewing in our juices.
Until then, Gerard.

mjp, I was set on "global ignore"? Talk about "cute"! Well, I assume F. Luke has something to do with that. But I agreed with you on Richmond, so I might not be that bad after all...

I am not someone who will ruin your forum.
 
M

Mather

I'm sure "nogoodnik" wasn't the only word he used. I am here because I like Bukowski, not because of any history I have had with F. Luke.
 

mjp

Founding member
Well, okay. It will be very difficult for me to convince him, but if you say your intentions are good, that's enough for me.
 

mjp

Founding member
Thanks, mjp, you sound like a man of reason.
I am indeed. A more reasonable man you will not find anywhere in the Americas, North or South. Maybe in Europe or Asia there is a more reasonable man, but I have yet to meet him.
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
Did I miss something? Is Mather the red snakes guy? Is Father Luke his friend?

Well we are all mostly reasonable here and friends and fans of Father Luke. Welcome Redviper.

2646080923_01050cc07a.jpg


A Red Racer
 

Black Swan

Abord the Yorikke!
Very nice composition Gerard,
that patch of green in the upper left side corner and the red oblique
running upward across the frame. This is art, or is it?
 
Maybe you missed a key word:

"...saying you have gained status is certainly pretentious. "

And it is.

For him/her to say he/she had achieved success would not be pretentious, because you can tangibly measure "success." Status can only be bestowed onto you by others, and to claim it yourself is, at the very least, cheeky, as the kids say.

Well, you're right, but it didn't really take it that way. I suppose as a casual member, I don't dissect every post to the spine, as it were. But my gut tells me that redviper was only trying to make a point. But he made two:

1. He's impressed, in general, by Buk's work, especially in the context of how his work has been in direct opposition of where Buk was; and
2. He's impressed by his own body of work

Still not a major crime here in my mind. People talk about being proud to be this and that, when they had no part in it.

It's no major transgression to me to say you're proud of your body of work, or that your son/daughter got into Yale or Stamford, but how can you be proud to be an American or a Antarctican? Hell, you had nothing to do with that if you were born here. You can be proud of it if you became a citizen, of course. Pride is a stupid concept for the most part.

Sorry; rambling.

Time will tell with redviper. For now, welcome.
 
The term status can indicate state of being, and that was clearly the context in which he used the term.

Oh, but I am sure everyone giving him shit knows that already.
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
We give everybody some shit, just for the fun of it.

Please tell us who you are Hanna? and Welcome to you too. Maybe you are redviper's overly protective girlfriend. In that case redviper has established even more status in my book. Even if you are a stranger coming to stand up for him, good job on that.

Black Swan that photo is from Google images and therefore it is art.
 
Not to be sticking my nose in 2 days after the fact but... this is something that I have thought about, especially in relation to Bukowski's views about 'management'. Now, as far as 'status' is concerned I can't say. I have none. To me, status implies money$$, and I have none. For about 13 years of my life I was a waitress. I was good at it and made pretty good money. I even liked it for a long time. But as can happen when you start something very early in life, you burn out, especially if there is not room to grow or express creativity, or even if your interest wanes. I quit; 3 little kids and a husband making next to shit at a muffler shop, I walked because I just couldn't do it any more. I would look at those 60 year old women coming in at 6am and think, I can't be one of these people, that is not going to be me,(and don't get me wrong, I have unending respect for servers;they work damn hard and earn every dime they take home. It is one of the few options 'uneducated' women have in order to make enough money and take care of their families).

I went back into retail, as a Book Seller. And for 8 years busted my ass to move up 'the ladder'. For 8 years I LOVED my job and I became a manager; one of the very few goals that I have ever set and managed to reach.

I got into Bukowski after having arrived at where I am right now. I think often about his writings on 'The Boss'. I really can dig where he came from; his perspective on the working man and the bullshit that goes along with being 'a grunt'.

But it really sucks being the boss. You can be the nicest most genuine, givingest person in the world! And no one gives a fuck. They can't see you for who you are. They don't say thank you. They don't ask you about your day after you've asked them about theirs.

I don't like my job very much anymore. I don't like how people preceive me. I don't like being put into some mold, just because I worked hard and gained knowledge that most others' there think they have but don't. I don't like that the work that used to bring me happiness is work that I no longer have the time to do. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

I don't really blame mjp for his response, I watch what goes on around here with these fly by nights, and if he needs to 'nip it in the bud', than so be it. he's saving us all some aggravation down the road. I think about the work and attention that needs to take place here, and no one is getting paid; I'd slam a few heads myself.

Notice that 'whatshisname' never did come back. If he was really genuine and wanted to take part here, he'd of come back and stood up like a grown-up. Thanks for listening peeps. You're my friends, hence the rambeling. Forgive spelling mistakes, I'm not editing.:)CRB
 

hoochmonkey9

Art should be its own hammer.
Moderator
Founding member
off topic, but....CRBSMILE, have you read this book? I highly recommend it. your post reminded me of it.

ndcoverlg.jpg
 
Yes, I've read it. I also saw a feature piece several years ago, on like 60 minutes or something; spotlight on the author and how she went about getting/working the jobs'undercover'. A really wonderful and smart smart lady. It was a Best Seller. And they use it as text/focus for some college classes. It is really amazing how people manage to make it in the world. But we do.:)CRB
 

Father Luke

Founding member
Did I miss something? Is Mather the red snakes guy? Is Father Luke his friend?

Well we are all mostly reasonable here and friends and fans of Father Luke. Welcome Redviper.


A Red Racer

I don't know what's been said? But for the permanent record?
Mather Schneider certainly no friend of mine.

Hope everyone is well.
 

Gerard K H Love

Appreciate your friends
Thank you, Father Luke, for that brief comment to clear a few things up. It was nice of you to join us again. I was making friends with Mather just to be on the safe side. I guess I'm red now:o.

Aside from overly criticizing Steve Richmond I thought he was being civil. Of course you can't please everyone and some should not be messed with, as we can see.
 

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