Hollywood characters - full list (1 Viewer)

BUK - THE MASTER OF NAMEDROPPING + INVENTOR OF NAMES !!!

Well, our dear and very own Bukfan had given a great list of Hollywood-names before.

Now I've re-read that novel and started to write down an even more complete list of names, including all unimportant ones, places, book-/film-titles, etc.
Many of them, I couldn't solve, so I give this to you to work out the rest.
At the end, we might have the full complete entire list of names mentioned in that fine novel. (Well, some of the more tricky persons might never uncover, but let's just start.)

BEWARE ! - This is an awfull long list!
I've tried to remember to spot Every little grain while reading (still missed some, I guess).



Here's the key to the list:

status:
IP = Important Person (in THAT novel - not in general)
mc = minor character (dito)
o = other (places, book-/movie-titles, etc)

page:
first appearence in ecco sc-edition 2002

[real] = that's the real name of the person, place, title
[fantasy] = that's a totally made up thing


and attached:
the LIST.
 

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  • Hollywood - names_02.txt
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Here's a list of just the names Roni was unsure of. I filled in the ones I knew without referencing the book:

Paul Renoir IP 9 [The famous painter's grandson]
Popppy [mc] 11 ... ?
Danny Server [mc] 13 ... ?
Harold Pheasant [mc] 14 ... ?
The Heart's Song o 25 ... ?
Jonathan Winters [mc] 25 [Real]
Jean-Paul Sanrah [mc] 28 ... ?
Henri-Leon Sanrah [mc] 29 ... ?
Central Station Arson o 38 [fantasy]
Krumph [mc] 38 ... ?
Flynn [mc] 38 ... ?
Vin Marbad [mc] 41 Applebaum ???
Darby Evans [mc] 44 Blake Edwards ?
The Bunny That Hopped ..o 44 ... ?
Waffles with Lulu o 44 ... ?
Terror in the Zoo o 44 ... ?
22nd Century Housing o 46 [Century 21 realtors]
Dennis Body [mc] 49 ... ? (Baldy???)
Rainbow Realty o 50 [Real - if this was in Topanga (where he saw the Manson house)]
Lila Gant [mc] 50 ... ?
Darlene [mc] 51 ... ?
Willy [mc] 52 ... ?
Double Quartet [mc] 52 ... ?
"one fellow" [mc] 65 ... ?
one-ball-director [mc] 66 ... ?
Giselle [mc] 66 ... ?
Back from Hades o 72 ... ?
Pat Sellers [mc] 72 ... ? [actually, there's a Pat Sellers who did movie-sounds from the 90s on]
Harry [mc] 76 ... ?
Lenny Fidelo [mc] 101 ... ?
Lippy Leo Durocher [mc] 105 [Leo Durocher was a famous baseball manager, nicknamed "Leo the Lip"]
Tim Ruddy [mc] 106 Tom Luddy ?
Lance Edwards IP 106 ... ?
Chateau Marmont o 106 ... ?
"famous actor with perpetual tan" [mc] 109 [I would agree this is George Hamilton]
Hal Edleman [mc] 122 ... ?
Sorenson [mc] 122 ... ?
Neeli Zutnick [mc] 128 ... ?
Rose [mc] 128 ... ?
Fletcher Jaystone [mc] 135 ... ?
Cleo [mc] 146 ... ?
Doug [mc] 146 ... ?
Lemon Duck o 154 [real] ?
Helga Henderson [mc] 157 ... ?
Thommy Henderson [mc] 157 ... ?
Marsh Edwards [mc] 162 ... ?
Cary Grant Pavillion o 177 [real place at Hollywood Park]
"Italian group" (investor) o 180 ... ?
Sesteenov [mc] 182 Errol Morris ?
Illiantovitch [mc] 183 ... ?
David [mc] 189 ... ?
William [mc] 189 ... ?
woman's mag o 191 ... ?
"fat fellow" [mc] 195 ... ?
Lola [mc] 195 ... ?
Andre Wells [mc] 195 ... ?
Tully Sorenson [mc] 207 [Wasn't she the composite character publisher in Barfly?]
Nadine [mc] 207 ... ?
Rich [mc] 208 ... ?
"an actor I really liked" [mc] 211 ... ?
"his wife" [mc] 211 ... ?
shopping mall with theatre o 219 ... ?
"one of the men" [mc] 220 ... ?
lady interviewer from station [mc] 220 ... ?
"2 girls" [mc] 222 ... / ... ?
other theatre next door o 222 ... ?
Copperfield's o 225 [real] ?
'Tell and Talk' column o 228 [real] ?
Babs Danish [mc] 230 ... ?
Tip Danish [mc] 230 ... ?
Sam [mc] 232 ... ?
Wexler [mc] 235 ... ?
Selby [mc] 235 ... ?
Ed [mc] 239 [Ed McMahon (since he was mentioned with Johnny Carson)]
 
thank you all for your nice words of encouragement.
also for the hints.
thanks mjp for yours above.

i think this becomes something, we can work with, eh?
 
Nice work, Roni. I loved Hollywood. Here's Buk at his most relaxed, fun and witty best. He writes like he was on top of the world, with total self-confidence and mastery of the word. What a gem. I remember when it was first hot off the press and I read it with total joy and satisfaction... I couldn't put it down.

Just a suggestion. I would reverse the names and go with Rick Talbot as Gene Siskel, and Kirby Hudson as Roger Ebert - the number of syllables line up perfectly as well as the relative sharpness and softness of the names.

Just passing through...best wishes....Poptop.
 
Just a suggestion. I would reverse the names and go with Rick Talbot as Gene Siskel, and Kirby Hudson as Roger Ebert - the number of syllables line up perfectly as well as the relative sharpness and softness of the names.

that's a VERY good point.
Buk often did these similarities, when in search for a pseudonym.

but in this case, we have evidence for the other way.
 
We know that Ebert was on the set, but this quote is not evidence that he considered himself either Talbot or Hudson in Hollywood, unless someone can post one. I consider the parallels between the real names and the pseudonyms as unmistakable if one is familiar with these famous American movie critics. The names make no sense otherwise from both a personality and literary standpoint, and I believe that Buk was smarter than that. Siskel only works as Talbot, and Ebert as Hudson and others are welcome to believe what they want. The only other possibility is that Bukowski happened to get the critics' names mixed up himself in his great novel, and if so, so what.
 
poptop said:
We know that Ebert was on the set, but this quote does not indicate that he considered himself either Talbot or Hudson [...] I don't buy it.

you don't need to buy it.

According to chapter 35, it was 'Rick Talbot' being at the set, not 'Kirby Hudson'.
 
I've seen this connection somewhere on a list.
But in the novel, Jack Bledsoe/Mickey Rourke states, Lenny is his bodyguard. So that wouldn't be Stallone.
 
oh, maybe I've discouraged some cats out there with my last responses.
I didn't mean to sound super-overlooking the novel or the Hollywood/LA-scene of the 80s or anything. Nor did I mean coming up as a smartass.

so:
Please keep coming in with suggestions!
 
Nice work on the list, Roni.

I'd like to submit that "Danny Server" is, in fact, Roger Corman (pg.13). He was the only one in Venice at the time with a studio, I believe. I grew up next door in Santa Monica, and worked at American International Pictures (AIP) cleaning up sometimes after school. The studio was nicknamed "The Lumberyard," because that's what it was before Corman took over the property. Plus, Roger was *definitely* the only one in Venice with a screening room staffed with a bartender. I vacuumed that floor, and stole Cokes from that bar refrigerator, more than a few times. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've lived here all my life and I can't figure another studio/screening room in Venice back then. It was just a short ride north from Marina Del Rey.

It's different now, of course. No "studios," but plush screening rooms are everywhere.
 
welcome Burt and thanks for contributing.
Insider-stories are always a pleasure to read.


p.s.:
the attached list is augmented by the names given here. Have I missed one? Do we have any more by now?

[...] Tully Sorenson [mc] 207 [Wasn't she the composite character publisher in Barfly?][...]
right. But on p 207 he claims she was a real person. So the question is that real persons name/identity.
 

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  • Hollywood - names_03.txt
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Tully Sorenson - Alice Krige

Illiantovitch - Andrei Konchalovsky ?

Looks like a Sure Bet:
http://wikiworldbook.com/global-address-book/Isabella-Bonelli
http://pinterest.com/pin/135108057541898795/

Marsh Edwards - Jack Baran?

There was an extremely tall man standing at the end of the hall.
It was Jon’s assistant director, Marsh Edwards.


Credit
Jack Baran - Associate Producer, Myron Meisel - Artistic Advisor, Robert MacDonald - Casting, Pat Orseth - Casting, Milena Canonero - Costume Designer, Jack Baran - First Assistant Director, Barbet Schroeder - Director, Eva Gardos - Editor, Yoram Globus - Executive Producer, Menahem Golan - Executive Producer, Jack Baran - Composer (Music Score), Bob Ziembicki - Production Designer, Robby Müller - Cinematographer, Tom Luddy - Producer, Fred Roos - Producer, Barbet Schroeder - Producer, Lisa Dean - Set Designer, Petur Hliddal - Sound/Sound Designer, Charles Bukowski - Screenwriter, Charles Bukowski - Book Author

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/barfly-film#ixzz2eayqVXex
 
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Tully Sorenson - Alice Krige

Sure, Krige played Tully in the film, but I think in Hollywood when Bukowski refers to Tully he is referring to Liza Williams.

Compare the info from chapter 41 of Hollywood with chapter 17 of Women (where Liza is Dee Dee).
 
Sure, Krige played Tully in the film, but I think in Hollywood when Bukowski refers to Tully he is referring to Liza Williams.
good guess, but nope.
IF this has been a real person in Bukowskis life, it had to be someone from the 40s or at least very early 50s.

We 'know', that the question Tully asks in the movie: "Who are you?" was originally asked by Caresse Crosby. So obviously he has merged different persons into one here. Still it makes no sense at all to pick Liza. sorry.

Illiantovitch - Andrei Konchalovsky
great idea!
I'd suggest we add it with a small questionmark behind?

Marsh Edwards - Jack Baran?
Definitely! Thanks.
 
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good guess, but nope.
IF this has been a real person in Bukowskis life, it had to be someone from the 40s or at least very early 50s.

We 'know', that the question Tully asks in the movie: "Who are you?" was originally asked by Caresse Crosby. So obviously he has merged different persons into one here. Still it makes no sense at all to pick Liza. sorry.

I think you're mixing up his life and his works roni.

IF
you think he lived (briefly) with a high powered executive (who shared her place in Hollywood with another high powered female) in the 40s then I'm going to disagree. Barfly was a mixture of various periods of Bukowski's life and some stuff he made up!

Yes, the Tully character in Barfly is a composite but there in the novel Hollywood he's describing Liza Williams, even their trip to Catalina. So for your Hollywood list, Liza is right.
 
[...] Barfly was a mixture of various periods [...]
I agree on this. But it's definitely Not a mixture of periods throughout his Whole life.

He merged together his Philly-years with his time, when he was with Jane. That's a wide span, I admit. We're talking about a decade.

Now, Liza Williams falls into a totally different time and period of his life. All the circumstances were different. Plus: I don't see him (throughout the whole screenplay) to intermix ANY other time of his life with the mentioned above.

Liza Williams?
The character would work, yes.
The happenings would work, yes.
It just doesn't fit into the time he's capturing in that screenplay.


p.s.:
I think you're mixing up his life and his works
I sure am not. I know that much about literature
(and you know that I know).
Evidence shows, that the whole novel 'Hollywood' is based on the very facts. That's what all this searching for the 'real' names is about. We sure can assume, that he was making up what he stated in 'Hollywood' about the character of 'Tully'. Possible. I'm not claiming, that there IS/WAS a real person like her, but IF there was, it can not possibly be Liza Williams
 
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hey roni, I'm not trying to suggest that you don't know what I know you know, you know?

But do you really believe that it is more likely that he had a relationship with a real-life Tully in the 40s than that he simply created that character for Barfly using elements from his Women period?

What I think you are discounting is this: - in my opinion there is a difference in the ratio of fiction to fact between Barfly and Hollywood.

What I am trying to say is that Tully in Barfly and Tully in Hollywood are not exactly the same. Tully is a character in Barfly but in Hollywood he only uses Tully to refer to the woman who the character is (partly) based upon.

I think that for Barfly, Bukowski took his experience of being published as a young man in Portfolio and expanded it out to include an intimate encounter with a successful female business woman. I don't believe he had that sort of relationship with Caresse Crosby!!

The only mention of 'Tully' in Hollywood is where Bukowski is clearly describing the elements of his relationship with Liza Williams which were transposed to the character in Barfly.

I'm going cross-eyed... Even Bukowski seems to get himself tied up in Hollywood with his references to himself as the scriptwriter and his other self as the character...

Peace
 
ON THE CHARACTER OF 'TULLY' IN 'BARFLY' AND 'HOLLYWOOD'

yep hanksolo. That's not an easy nut to crack.
(and right now, I'm beyond real rational thought due to C2H5OH, so sorry if I'll make obvious mistakes in the logic structure of my following post,)

do you really believe that it is more likely that he had a relationship with a real-life Tully in the 40s than that he simply created that character for Barfly using elements from his Women period?
yes, I do.
The reason: throughout the whole novel we don't have a single hint that he as the author has been doing this, (Either in the screenplay Nor in the novel).
I'd admit, it would be Very possible, that he used the later experience with Liza in the screenplay. But the way he descripes Tully in 'Hollywood' - and that's what we're talking about - kills that idea. There's no other part in that novel (to my knowledge) that would have been written this way. He usually sticks to the facts there and only changes names or small issues.

What I am trying to say is that Tully in Barfly and Tully in Hollywood are not exactly the same. [...] there is a difference in the ratio of fiction to fact between Barfly and Hollywood.
We agree here and we know it.


What we have as facts about the novel 'Hollywood' are these:
- There are many happenings in the novel, that took place in real life. (I don't know which would NOT.)
- There are a lot of characters in the novel, that represent an actual, individual person in real life. (Most of them)
- Inside the novel he's usually claiming that what he described had really happened. As far as we know, that usually is right.
- In chapter 41 (p.207) he claims that the screenplay-character of 'Tully' was based on an actual person.

The Tully-character in the screenplay may have been enriched by experiences with Liza, as the famous quotation of Crosby was put in the mouth of that character. Sure. But at the moment in chapt. 41 of Hollywood, when he claims, that there had been a real person, he was talking about, we need to take that serious.

That's all, I guess.
For now.
 
Well we'll just have to disagree roni.

When I read pages 207-209 of Hollywood all I see is a scene from the Women period with Tully/Dee Dee/Liza and Nadine/Bianca. The similarities are just too many to ignore for me.
 
I can't deny that. So my solution for the moment was, I didn't exactly identify her in the list, but wrote "based on Liza Williams". That okay?
Sure, that's fair.
 
Read this recently and sort of pertinent to this debate, not sure if it helps to clarify anything:

[What was the period you drew on for the screenplay?

"Actually, it was two periods and I melded them together. When I lived in Philadelphia, I was a barfly. I was about 25, 24, 26, it gets kinda mixed up."]

[... "This is kind of a mixture of two areas, L.A. and Philadelphia, melded together. Which may be cheating, but it’s supposed to be fictional anyway, right? Must have been around 1946".]

http://www.filmcomment.com/film-comment/article/charles-bukowski-interview
 
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"Actually, it was two periods and I melded them together. [...] "This is kind of a mixture of two areas,

thanks for finding this and contributing, sky.
It's fairly known, that he melted two 'periods' of his life. These were:

- The bar where he seems to be an inhabitant and fought the barkeep was in Philadelphia, somewhere around 1944-46.
- The woman he gets to know in the movie, Wanda, was one Jane Baker in real life. He met her in LA ca 1947 in a bar on Alvarado street.

Though that's a wide span, it doesn't cover anything beyond 1950.
Liza Williams, the woman in question here for Tully, was someone he was seeing in the early 70s at a totally different stage of his life and under totally different circumstances. That's why I refused to 'buy' her.

But Hanksolo is right:
the similarities are obvious.
In fact, they are so obvious and hardfacts, that I would totally identify Tully with Liza without a second though - if Buk wouldn't state, that there was a real 'Tully' in the context of the screenplay (d.i.the 1940s). Sure 'Hollywood's a work of fiction, but I know of no other excample in this book, where he would give such misinformation. That's why I hesitated.

But until we got the slightest glimpse of a 'real' Tully during the time, where the movie is set (1944-1947/8/9) it IS our best bet to name Liza Williams.
 

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