NPR story this morning (1 Viewer)

Two interesting things:

1) It is in their "planet money" section, not art.
2) pobiz? What the fuck? This sounds like something that this professor made up. NPR then reports that this is what those in the small press call it?

Of course, they did not mention that most small press publishers sell books on the internet. I cannot imagine asking the poet to go out there and do all the work of selling the books at readings...

Bill
 
yeah... 'pobiz'?? it's great that the small press is getting a mention on national radio, but it would have been nice to have heard a more fleshed-out piece. i mean, basically all that was, was:
big publishers aren't selling books
poets have never sold books
some people don't mind helping poets not sell books
 
I think a lot of people who hear that will be surprised to learn about the macro economics involved in most poetry publications. People still think: book = big publisher = $$$.

I'm sure a lot of people here can relate to excitedly telling friends and family about your first book being published and having them say, "Hey, that's great! So will you be able to make a living on the royalties from that?" Then, all deflated, you explain that there is no money, and they look at you like you're out of your mind. ;)

Raise your hand if you've been there...
 
I'm sure a lot of people here can relate to excitedly telling friends and family about your first book being published and having them say, "Hey, that's great! So will you be able to make a living on the royalties from that?" Then, all deflated, you explain that there is no money, and they look at you like you're out of your mind. ;)

Aw c'mon don't be so hard on yourself! If Dean Koontz can make millions, so can you!

But yeah when I was explaining to my mom that I was interested in publishing and taking some classes... boy, was that ever more complex a conversation than I thought possible.

Especially trying to explain that... well, I'd be making money working a REAL job and then come home, take care of my wife and son, and THEN do the publishing portion... And not make any money off of it... Good times.
 
I had a real hag of a woman recently say that none of the books I'd published were "real" because they we're sold in Barnes & Noble. That tasted pretty good, especially considering how much everyone who worked to put them out spent in time, money, effort, love & that it could be so easily dismissed...

In fact, she accidentally became a powerful metaphor for exactly why there must be a small press...
 
Because we make little money, it is more pure. Since the driving force is art, not profit, we are free to put out what we want, profit be damned.

Bill
 
A book sits on a table, potent, unaffected,
unaltered by the rise and fall of the marketplace.
There lays beauty, powerful in its stillness.
 
Because we make little money, it is more pure. Since the driving force is art, not profit, we are free to put out what we want, profit be damned.
well, i wish i could say my motives were this pure but in all honesty - they're not. we love what we do, making books is satisfying and really does give you a sense of creative achievement (something that i'm surprised to have found at this stage of my life, when i'd effectively accepted that i totally lacked creativity).

we had two reasons for starting a small press: we wanted to play with book-art since we love the materiality of books, and we wanted to see published all the stuff we felt deserved to be. we didn't want to wait for someone else to do it. so that's what got us started. but i DO want to make money doing this. i would love to be free of having to work a shitty retail job for a living and just do this full time. (actually, i may in fact be doing this full time when my work visa runs out in early july, since my new work authorisation hasn't arrived and we have literally no idea when it will.) yes, it's an art but like all art it's also work, and like all work it's nice to get paid.

we sure as hell don't expect to get paid, and we knew going into this that we would more likely lose money than make it. but that doesn't mean we aren't concerned with drawing some kind of income from what we do, that it's not something that factors in to how we (will) operate. having said that, it's also important that we don't compromise to make money - i.e. we won't publish stuff that we're not happy to publish just to turn a buck.

but bill genuinely is one of the few people out there truly concerned almost exclusively with creating the art. man, that guy practically refused money from me one time when i was trying to pay the full price of book i bought off him!

i could probably talk on this subject for a few more pages, but i'll shut up now except to say: thanks to everyone who supports small presses - we do appreciate it!
 
Is the BBC Iplayer available to you guys in the States? If so there are a whole heap of poetry related programmes on there as part of 'Poetry Season'.
 
.....snip.

I'm sure a lot of people here can relate to excitedly telling friends and family about your first book being published and having them say, "Hey, that's great! So will you be able to make a living on the royalties from that?" Then, all deflated, you explain that there is no money, and they look at you like you're out of your mind. ;)

Raise your hand if you've been there...

Okay, my hand is raised. My mother has been published several times and I asked her how much money she was making about 15 years ago, I looked at her like she was out of her mind. I would love to be able to buy a German car too.
 
I was at a local authors event a few years ago where we sat out at a table at an Art Fair with stacks of our books (mostly small press, but a few books from big publishers) and people come by and ask us questions or chat and then if we're lucky or pass the test, they buy our books and have us sign them. Loads of fun as you can imagine. Anyway, I happened to be sitting next to a woman who has written a couple of books from a "real publisher" about some famous dog that made small town news a half century ago. She was quite chatty and we were swapping author stories until we came to a point where she asked what sort of royalties my publisher paid me. When I explained that most of the small press poetry publishers don't pay royalties and that I don't make any money on most of my books, she gave me a stunned look like I was some sort of village idiot, turned away, started talking to some other, more reputable author on her other side, and never looked back at me. I can't imagine she is living the high life off her dog stories. I probably sold as many books as she did that day.
 
Fuck her and her dog stories. Since money is her only judge of success, in the end, she will be a failure. You are creating art and because of that you are a success.

I started out BoSP with the goal of doing what I wanted to do and NOT making it a business. I refused to worry about the business side of it. Because of this, I cannot fail as a business. I may not make money, but that is not the goal.

I can say that I can feel your pain. This is why I stopped selling books at poetry events (not that I ever actually sold any in the first place). I would much rather sell over the internet, where we have a fine group of people who get it.

I still can't get over the arrogance of her turning away from you to talk to a "more important" author. Maybe the guy on the other side wrote a story about a cat and they had that in common...

Bill
 
I hate dog stories. Part of it is because they're almost always syrupy crap. Another part is that I had a really, REALLY rude woman on the phone trying to get the store I work at to carry her book entitled Silverton's Bobbie.

We already carried a couple copies and she wanted us to order MORE. When I told her that we couldn't really do that because times are tight and our store is cutting back on ordering items, she got real mean, real quick. It was even more fun going through the same motions a few weeks later telling her the same thing.

Of course, some dog stories are alright... specifically ihasahotdog.com
 
This is why I stopped selling books at poetry events (not that I ever actually sold any in the first place). I would much rather sell over the internet, where we have a fine group of people who get it.
Unless you enjoy sitting at a table behind piles of your books in an auditorium somewhere while people walk by and ignore you, there's no need to do that anymore.

The internet can seem like an auditorium full of people ignoring you, but the odds of connecting with your audience are much greater here, despite the seeming randomness of the web.

USE THIS SITE! This is a great captive audience that you know is into a certain style of writing - hell, you know at the very least they are interested in reading, which is 99% of the battle. I've received PMs from people asking if it's okay to post commercial stuff in this "Support the small press" forum, and the answer is 'yes,' that's what it's for.

An average of 1,155 people come here every day ("Visits" in the chart below). 90% of them visit this forum. You might get that in one day every year at a book fair, but at least here when they ignore you you don't even realize it. ;)


stats_through_may09.gif
 
That is interesting and you make a strong point.

Hey! to those of you who don't like dog stories, I will remember that. That lady who turned away from Rekrab only did so because she was looking for a rich guy to go party with.;)
 
David, you should have spit on her face :D

I still can't get over the arrogance of her turning away from you to talk to a "more important" author. Maybe the guy on the other side wrote a story about a cat and they had that in common...
mdrz.gif



But aren't there book fairs devoted to small press only ? Aren't there organisations/associations defending and promoting small press ? Here in France, the situation of small press is not so much better but specific bookfairs and organisations do exist, so that one can't say nothing is done to help small press.
 
I have never been to a small press fair, but expect that there are probably cliques like everywhere else. I have been to a local poetry festival and even the poets did not get what I was doing. I'm sure that the small press fairs have a lot of comic and zine folks that would not necessarily get what we are doing either.

Bill
 
I started out BoSP with the goal of doing what I wanted to do and NOT making it a business. I refused to worry about the business side of it. Because of this, I cannot fail as a business. I may not make money, but that is not the goal.

Good for you, Bill! When you're not interested in money as such, nobody can manipulate you by speaking to your greed and then you're one step ahead of the majority of people...
 
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last november we went to APE - the alternative press expo, held in san francisco. it was mostly comic and graphic novel publishers, but there was a lot of very small indie publishers there as well, a lot of DIY stuff. we also went to a handmade book fair recently that was mostly letterpress. we've met some great people at both.

we'll also be attending a *small press convention* in july... i hear BoSP will be the headlining publisher ;)
 
APE is run by comicon, so the expectation is that it's gonna be mostly comics. i think small press literature could use some fairs, though... it's a small niche, but no smaller the niche for people who make $300 handmade books that have one poem in them that isn't even that good.

what would be nice about a small press literature fair would be that the design and time put into the books themselves would be on an equal plane with the words inside, rather than one taking precedence over the other (like at a "poetry" fair vs. a "handmade book" fair).
 
I hate dog stories. Part of it is because they're almost always syrupy crap. Another part is that I had a really, REALLY rude woman on the phone trying to get the store I work at to carry her book entitled Silverton's Bobbie.

We already carried a couple copies and she wanted us to order MORE. When I told her that we couldn't really do that because times are tight and our store is cutting back on ordering items, she got real mean, real quick. It was even more fun going through the same motions a few weeks later telling her the same thing.

Of course, some dog stories are alright... specifically ihasahotdog.com

"Silverton Bobbie" -- where have I heard that title before? God, it sounds soooo familiar. Oh yeah! I was at this event in a park and ... never mind.

Bingo! No, that's not the dog's name.
 
what would be nice about a small press literature fair would be that the design and time put into the books themselves would be on an equal plane with the words inside, rather than one taking precedence over the other (like at a "poetry" fair vs. a "handmade book" fair).

Book Art... the Center for the Book in SF has events through the year focusing on the Art of Book making and Letterpress Art. here

I think that there are 2 ways of looking at it and Jordon you nailed by saying that the event should be equally about the Art of making the book and the words that grace it's pages.

I guess the mentality of some is that great things are suppose to happen at a Book Fair or Literature Faire, like you're suppose to get discovered or idolized or something.
I'm sorry David that the Bitch, oops sorry I mean, Author of Dog Stories turned her back on you. Obviously she is one with a herd mentality.
Her loss I'm sorry to say.

I certainly have slowly been getting more and more into the Art of making the piece and doing it because I want to do it. To me the process is very invigorating. Of course I will always have that picture of Bill's finger in my head as I am working the press.

I started out BoSP with the goal of doing what I wanted to do and NOT making it a business. I refused to worry about the business side of it. Because of this, I cannot fail as a business. I may not make money, but that is not the goal.

Bill
And I believe your work, Bill, stands out because of your love of doing it. It's important to you. And it shows. I appreciate that and am very much inspired by that.

And Yes, I would like to attend and participate in a Bay Area Small Press Literature Fair. I think that would be way cool.:D
 
I wasn't terribly disturbed by my dog author snubbing. I laughed it off. Maybe I'm just used to being ignored and have gotten comfortable with that. I kind of blend into the background here like some forest creature.

By the way, I did some checking and there are at least two recent books out about a certain famous lost dog so I'm not sure which author I had the pleasure of meeting.

One of the best places I've found to sell small press books is at poetry readings. I read once or twice a year and sometimes I'll sell 10 or even 15 books. Other times, it's one or two. I don't know if other poets have similar luck. I would buy a lot of the books I see at readings, but I'm usually broke and just there for the free wine. Well, that and the poetry. They go together.
 
That is interesting and you make a strong point.

Hey! to those of you who don't like dog stories, I will remember that. That lady who turned away from Rekrab only did so because she was looking for a rich guy to go party with.;)

Your dog stories are always welcome. Your fish stories however...
 
One of the best places I've found to sell small press books is at poetry readings. I read once or twice a year and sometimes I'll sell 10 or even 15 books. Other times, it's one or two. I don't know if other poets have similar luck. I would buy a lot of the books I see at readings, but I'm usually broke and just there for the free wine. Well, that and the poetry. They go together.
A while ago I did a reading at a local eclectic book and music store, Quail Ridge Books. I sold five of my books and just yesterday got a royalty check for the princely sum of 42 bucks. But unfortunately, there was no free wine, so I had to pound a couple of drinks before the reading. I felt like I was back in college and broke and had to drink at home before I went out so I didn't have to spend money in the bars. :) But yeah, agreed, I've usually been able to sell my chapbooks or publications at readings.
 
On average, I sell maybe three books at a reading. I've had a few where the numbers climbed over ten copies and a few where I sold nothing, although on those ocassions I probably wasn't trying in that I didn't mention them as being for sale, and didn't hang around afterwards pushing them. But sometimes people just grab them up and that always feels like a miracle. I try never to miss the free wine. One or two glasses and even the bad poems have a certain charm.
 
IAnyway, I happened to be sitting next to a woman who has written a couple of books from a "real publisher" about some famous dog that made small town news a half century ago. She was quite chatty and we were swapping author stories until we came to a point where she asked what sort of royalties my publisher paid me. When I explained that most of the small press poetry publishers don't pay royalties and that I don't make any money on most of my books, she gave me a stunned look like I was some sort of village idiot, turned away, started talking to some other, more reputable author on her other side, and never looked back at me. I can't imagine she is living the high life off her dog stories. I probably sold as many books as she did that day.

I wonder if anyone did a bibliography of her work spanning nearly 4 decades.

I'm just sayin...

Bill
 
I wonder if anyone did a bibliography of her work spanning nearly 4 decades.

I can picture it now:

1. Dog Book (Biography of famous lost dog who traveled thousands of miles cross country to get home. Happy ending.)

2. Second Dog Book (Biography of a less well known lost dog. This poor fellow never made it home. Tragic ending.)

3. Christmas Dog Book (Crafts and cooking for doggy with a holiday theme.)

4. Another Damned Dog Book (Humor)

5. Big Illustrated Coffeetable Dog Book (color photos on almost every page. Very little text.)

6. The DogVinci Code (Supernatural Religious Thriller)

7. Dog Verses (Poetry. The real kind. It rhymes.)

8. Omnibus Dog (Items one through 7, collected into one stupendous volume, without the color photos from number 5)

etc, etc.

You can tell I have time to kill tonight.
 

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