Timeline contributions (1 Viewer)

just a minor thing:
the timeline gives the marriage date (Barbara Frye) as 10/29/1955, while the marriage certificate in 'B in Pics' (p.51) says 10/30.

(please note that the FBI was totally off the point (as they're so often) claiming 9/25 to be the date.)

have just realized, that 'Frye' is usually spelled 'Fry' in the timeline.
I changed it after this.

According to the person who once was here claiming she was Barbara's granddaughter the true name was 'Frye' and Barbara only cut that to 'Fry' (maybe because of her short neck, she wanted to have things short *haha*).

Of course this is only valuable information IF this person actually was her granddaughter.

(but I'm over that anyway, since I'm divorced already and my fuckin' father has just died. / *insert a sigh of relief here*)


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I believe it was Frye, but if someone wants to change their name in some way, I figure the world should go along with them.
my fuckin' father has just died. / *insert a sigh of relief here*
I would say "I'm sorry," but it doesn't sound like you are. ;) It does sound like there's a story there though...
[...] Frye, but if someone wants to change their name in some way, I figure the world should go along with them.
Agreed. Only, it seems she never 'really' changed it: the marriage certificate says 'Frye' and I bet her death certificate even so. Whatever.
(of course I too have never 'officially' changed my name to Roni even though it graces my passport.)
I would say "I'm sorry," but it doesn't sound like you are. It does sound like there's a story there though...
baby, you sure know what I was referring to. Here's a hint:
"… he was such a stupid prick […] well, that’s all over and he’s dead dead dead, thank god"
... said who? and which somebody's writing a bit about that who?
(so, this was only a short note, about where this somebody is in the process so far.)
on a sidenote:
Buk uses the name 'Fry' in all his letters to Sheri Martinelli. But then - he drops a lot of letters in this conversation.
I have nothing to add except to say I continues to be flabbergasted as to the level of knowledge and dedication to this site from it's members. I look forward to the day I can say something of profound incite. mjp...how come your sound knob does not go up to 11? what's up with that?
another just minor thing:
Our timeline got it right, while our books-list doesn't:
Even though Krumhansl says 'Longshot Pomes' came out in 1962 (#8) there's evidence that it came out in October 1961, which means before 'Poems and Drawings' (and of course before 'Run with...').

Evidence is Abel's article 'The Early Chapbooks ...' (p.48) and the 'Late-Oct 1961'-letter to Martinelli.


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I don't have a "month" value in the database for book publication dates, so books in the same year are listed alphabetically. That could be fixed, but I don't know if it's worth the trouble.
another thing not related to the timeline but to the poems-database / and neither a contribution nor a correction but just a question:

is it true, that 'Old Man Dead In A Room' appeared in Outsider #1 as well as in #3?
Of course the poem is worth repeating ...


ah, maybe we should re-name this thread to something like:
"Tiny remarks on unimportant little nothings from a picky person with too much time on hand."
just for matters of completion:

"All right, I came out of the hospital ~round 1955 and got a job -- shipping clerk for a light fixture plant in east l.a. -- "
(WR #45, p.6)


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just for matters of completion:

"All right, I came out of the hospital ~round 1955 and got a job -- shipping clerk for a light fixture plant in east l.a. -- "
(WR #45, p.6)
I was reading the long letter to Corrigan (re: writing an intro to the first LouJon book) the other day where he gives what is essentially a one page biography and he talks about driving the truck again after getting out of the hospital...and in the poem my 2nd and 3rd jobs (which isn't in the db yet) he mentions the stock clerk at Sears as his third job...

Which is just to say that pinning this stuff down precisely is difficult. But it would certainly appear that the post-hospital Supreme lighting gig came after driving the truck and his first stint with the P.O.

But Sunbeam lighting is in 1950 and Supreme lighting is in 1955 and I always wondered how many damn lighting fixture places there were in Los Angeles, or whether those two jobs were somehow one in the same. They are so far apart I leave them as separate jobs, but it makes you wonder.


"The law is wrong; I am right"
Sunbeam lightning and Supreme lightning even sound the same. Maybe it's a case of Buk not remembering the exact name of the lightning company and the year he worked there. It would be odd if he worked for two different lightning companies five years apart without him never mentioning it.
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question just occured to me:
Buk was in New Orleans to write 'Crucifix' for (nearly) a whole month.
How much vacation a year did a postal clerk get at that time? Do we know, how Buk had handled this with his bosses?


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Looks like he was only in New Orleans for 15 days. Add another few days for train travel and he's probably still within what they would get for vacation time. I don't know what it was like in the 60s, but in general, Federal employees get a lot of holidays and vacation.

He could have also taken unpaid leave, or "sick" leave. Remember, his attendance (or non-attendance) at the job was always getting him in trouble.

Digney in Burnaby

donkeys live a long time
Don't know about how much time they got then (early 1960s) or now. A quick look finds that JFK signed a bill allowing federal employees to have collective bargaining in 1962. They could not strike. A wildcat strike by postal workers in 1970 due to poor benefits and conditions. Apparently they weren't allowed to bargain collectively so maybe JFK's bill didn't apply. Nixon first brought in the military to try to break the strike and then wrote a reorganization bill for postal workers.

I wonder how much holiday time Bukowski had back in 1965 and if he didn't just book off sick.
[...] accrued [...]
do we know how he managed this (supposed) taking off for a couple of weeks to beat the horses?

(ain't in the shape to look it all up now, but seem to recall, this period was not only in 'Post Office' but also mentioned in bios.)
out timeline says, when Hank moved within the DeLongpre-complex (from the back to the famous bungalow near the street), this were already without Frances and Marina. Sounes and Neeli say, they were with him in the bungalow at first. I find that believable:

- in a letter to Blazek (24-3-65 / 'Screams',p.136) it sounds as if they were still living together.
- the poem 'the new place' (WR #16 / 1964) also indicates that they may live together (the poem was written, while living on ground level, as was the previously mentioned letter)
- in letter to Blazek ("Sometime, 1965 / in 'Screams' between "Late May, 1965" and "June 2, 1965", p.159f): "... I must live with her because of the child ...".

have stumpled about a few more indications lately.
Just sayin'.
maybe I've just not seen them in the timeline, but I think these readings are missing:

St. Mark's Reading 2-3-72
Buk Troubadour 10-3-76


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I won't have to read about that damn truck again.
I know it's been a couple of years, but I added the truck driving to the timeline, saying he probably drove for the post office.

I was in there because I was just re-reading the Jon Webb Jr. book for some reason, and in there Lou says he visited them in New Orleans during the printing of Outsider #1, which was news to me (and apparently all of his biographers). I don't see anything in letters from that time that says he's going to, or has just been to, New Orleans, so maybe Lou is remembering a different visit.


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I think the timeline entry comes from a newspaper ad - but either date could be right or wrong, I suppose.

What I always wonder when I read that letter is what the "stirring and magic" thing was in the two weeks from June 27th...
Ah, so it wasn't Amber.
My memory is vanishing, esp concerning names & dates. Summer of 1975 seems to be the time he was with Pam, right?
So maybe a look into her bio may reveil, with whom he was cheating her at the time.


Usually wrong.
Poet Joan Jobe Smith just told me about an early Bukowski reading that's not on the Timeline. She says CSULB professor and poet Elliot Fried was the first person at Cal State Long Beach to pay Bukowski money to do a reading. It was in Huntington Beach at a little theatre in 1970 or 1969. I'll ask what her information source is. Hopefully we can nail this down soon.


Usually wrong.
I'm waiting for more info from Joan Jobe Smith but it looks like the reading was at the Nifty Theater, 307 Main St., Huntington Beach, in 1969. Gerald Locklin talks about colleagues of his at CSULB who had wanted to get in touch with Bukowski to do a reading at the Nifty Theater, on page 1 of his book Charles Bukowski: A Sure Bet. He doesn't mention Fried by name and gives a 1970 date, but Joan is certain it was in 1969, when the first two issues of Laugh Literary and Man the Humping Guns were published. I've been looking for a newspaper announcement for the event but haven't yet found one.

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