10/27: Haunts of a Dirty Old Man: Charles Bukowski's LA tour (1 Viewer)

[esotouric]

This Saturday afternoon, we hope you'll join "Bukowski: Born Into This" director John Dullaghan and Esotouric's Richard Schave as they host a citywide bus tour into Bukowski's Los Angeles. Something new on this tour: a beer run at one of Bukowski's favorite liquor stores.

Tour summary and purchase info available are here:
http://www.esotouric.com/buk

 

[Father Luke]

Will there be anything in the tour as to his Opera days?

Or no?

 

[bernard stachman]

hahaha buk sings opera!! WHEN YOU CLEAN THE CITY U KILL IT....dead dead dead.
For some reason i have that Scum Grief poem in my head....set it to music yeah.:)

jorg

 

[mjp]

Something new on this tour: a beer run at one of Bukowski's favorite liquor stores.

Wow! And I'll bet it hasn't changed one bit since he last walked through the door, thirty years ago. What an authentic and compelling experience that will be.

 

[Joe Batters]

You can put an old "drinking buddy" of Hank's on the tour bus. You can call him Dutch and quickly talk over him when he tries to explain that his name's not Dutch, but is in fact Craig.

 

[postino]

loling!

 

[Bukfan]

Wow! And I'll bet it hasn't changed one bit since he last walked through the door, thirty years ago. What an authentic and compelling experience that will be.

Exactly! And afterwards we can visit the supermarked where he bought his food...:D

 

[Petey]

Yeah and in the supermarket you can buy this nice pillow:

http://bondibooks.ocnk.net/data/bondibooks/product/so_a2e23140a5.png

 

[Bukfan]

Jezuz! Skateboards, Poker chips, magnets etc. - and now a pillow! What will be next? :eek:

 

[esotouric]

so glad you asked!

Gentle reader,

It's taken a couple of months, for plasticmuse had to go all the way to Oshkosh to obtain the proper shades of ink to evoke Tony Millionaire's Bukowski-inspired Bukbird for his limited edition fine art silkscreen print. Then he had to come back!

And now they're here. There are just 100 copies on heavy 12" x 18" stock, each signed and numbered by the artist, with the in-person cost of $50, or $55 by mail (if in the US).

The Bukbird print debuts this Saturday on the Haunts of a Dirty Old Man tour bus, and interested art lovers can purchase their copy during the tour, or immediately after. See it here:
http://www.esotouric.com/bukbirdposter

Get on the Bukowski tour bus by visiting this link:
http://www.esotouric.com/buk-10-27-07

Or greet the returning passengers and plastic muse by greeting us in front of Philippe The Original before the 7pm scheduled drop off time. Where? See below for directions:
http://philippesfrenchdip.notlong.com/

Also this weekend: Halloween Horrors with Crimebo the Clown, Sunday 10/28, 11am. Info: http://www.esotouric.com/halloween-10-28-07

yrs,
Kim
Esotouric

 

[Bukfan]

I'll bet you're "so glad you asked". :D
I completely forgot about all esotouric's Buk merchandise - sorry, Buk art! ;)

 

[esotouric]

Oh, the t-shirts and beer coasters are certainly merch. Only the silkscreen is art!

 

[mjp]

First of all, you really ought to stop referring to "Tony Millionaire's Bukowski-inspired Bukbird." The character already existed, and is called "Drinky Crow."

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/hollywood/news/2007/06/maakiemation
http://newyorkette.com/?p=284
http://www.silverbulletcomics.com/shop/product.php?a=25916

Second, to go from Los Angeles to Oshkosh to get a certain color of ink, you'd have to be a fucking idiot. So you were exaggerating, right? Like, poetic license, right? Or maybe it's true! Like the comics printed in the 70's with the blood of the rock group KISS. Yeah, true like that.






This is normally where I would stop, and then you would type something about how selfless and not-getting-rich you are. I'll pause here for a second and let people imagine what it might sound like.






Your shilling martyr routine has become predictable.

Hey, there you go, why don't you take some existing cartoon character, call it SHILLING MARTYR and CafePress some mouse pads and shot glasses to sell. Remember though you fuckers, the idea was mine, and I'll get my cut if I have to come over there and shake it out of your linty pauper pockets.

 

[ROC]

Wow. Someone woke up with their undies twisted around their balls!

 

[esotouric]

No, it's the Bukbird

You might think the Bukbird resembles Drinky Crow, but Mr. Millionaire does not wish him to be described that way. So shhh! You wouldn't want to irk a millionaire, would you? Also, Drinky Crow doesn't smoke, nor know how to type, so they're different.

I cannot comment on the ink from Oshkosh business, save that that's what plasticmuse said he needed.

 

[mjp]

Wow. Someone woke up with their undies twisted around their balls!

I don't wear underwear to bed...what do you think I am, a weirdo?!

You might think the Bukbird resembles Drinky Crow, but Mr. Millionaire does not wish him to be described that way.

Oh, I see. Drinky Crow with different props around him is not Drinky Crow. Well, that makes perfect sense. What was I thinking.

It's interesting you should say that though. It makes a perfect entre for the introduction of my new character SHILLING MARTYR:

You might think SHILLING MARTYR resembles Kim Cooper of Esotouric, but I do not wish her described that way. Kim Cooper ran around trying to save balls. SHILLING MARTYR is trying to sell you pictures of those balls, and lots of other stuff she didn't actually have anything to do with creating. So she's different.

So shhh! Don't irk me. I jealously guard my characters, and I know a lot of lawyers who --- well, let's just say they owe me favors, and they aren't burdened by pedestrian things like conscience.






Okay, I don't really know any lawyers, but I'm kind of tired of you using this forum as your own little home shopping network without contributing anything. Go start a MySpace page. Stop suckerfishing this shark, bitches.

 

[bospress.net]

Okay, I don't really know any lawyers, but I'm kind of tired of you using this forum as your own little home shopping network without contributing anything. Go start a MySpace page. Stop suckerfishing this shark, bitches.

Keeping the spirit of the forum sucker-free, please keep your eyes peeled for another free offer from Bottle of Smoke Press in the next week. I'm having major computer problems...

Stay tuned...

Bill

 

[mjp]

Just to clarify; when esotouric has 1,440 posts like Bill does - or even a tenth of that, let's say 144 non-whore posts - then they can advertise anything they want.

They cannot, however, come in here any longer just to advertise, which has been their modus operandi (take their bus crime tour to learn what that means) up to now. I'll delete those posts, so don't waste your time.

I hope that clears up any confusion and untwists the undies from everyone's balls, whether they are orange and 12 feet around, or nut sized and extremely sensitive to twisting.

 

[Domator]

Like the comics printed in the 70's with the blood of the rock group KISS. Yeah, true like that.

So by the way, I read that :) . Great comic book. Typical Marvel book from 70's. And it's true I saw a short movie when they gave their own blood to ink. I have only reprint from 95, not the first issue from 77.

 

[bospress.net]

Hi,
YEs, the blood/ink story is either true or a hoax that has not been proven in the last 30 years,but I always thought that it was true and have even seen a story on it once.

 

[hank solo]

Hey mjp, how much for a SHILLING MARTYR mouse mat, printed with the blood of Gene Simmons? I don't actually want one but was thinking that it might be a sound investment for the future...

 

[Bukfan]

non-whore posts

LOL - great expression! :D

 

[mjp]

Hey mjp, how much for a SHILLING MARTYR mouse mat, printed with the blood of Gene Simmons? I don't actually want one but was thinking that it might be a sound investment for the future...

I think you're right. Let me make a few calls.

The KISS blood thing is real - to an extent. They had about a test tube's worth of blood drained from each of them and they dribbled it into a vat of red ink that appeared to be at least 50 - 75 gallons. So that genuine KISS blood was quite diluted if any of it got to the page of your comic book.

I don't think you could do that now, contaminate a vat of ink with your blood. But in the 70's, people weren't so uptight about viruses and whatnot. I have vague memories...

 

[esotouric]

So, mjp, you're banning me from using this forum to post about any future Bukowski tours or related announcements, that's fine, it's your right, but I am disappointed that you are have made this decision. If a bus tour co-hosted by John Dullaghan doesn't belong under the All things Bukowski umbrella, what does?

Anyone reading this who is interested in the Bukowski bus tours or the preservation efforts for the Delongpre apartments can always find out what's new by visiting the http://www.esotouric.com site (for tours) or http://5124delongpre.civicspaceondemand.org/blog (for preservation).

mjp, you've clearly been having fun with Photoshop with your Shilling Martyr character, but the difference between your design and ours is that we have the right to use all the artwork that appears on our products, and you have no rights to use that photograph. I would appreciate your taking it down promptly. Feel free to draw a picture instead.

Bye bye, bukowski.net.

Kim
Esotouric

 

[Father Luke]

Funniest post of the year.

 

[ROC]

I'm going to go out on a limb here for something I don't give a shit about... I mean I can't go on the tour and wouldn't if I could - it seems like a stupid idea to me... anyway...

Weddle posted on this forum 6 times and he arrived ostensibly to promote his Loujon book. He was greeted with interest and courtesy. I'm sure if comes back and has another really interesting book or project to promote no one will get their back up. It's arguable that he "contributed" anything other than making us aware of his book. Seemed like a nice guy though... and yes, I bought the book. We haven't seen him in a while.

Might I suggest the problem with esotouric is the product rather than the MO?

I consider myself a guest in mjp's house.. what he says goes and if one doesn't like it well... you can follow poptop. And, as I say, I don't really care.

It just seems hypocritical to me.

I do understand where you are coming from mjp but "If a bus tour co-hosted by John Dullaghan doesn't belong under the All things Bukowski umbrella, what does? seems spot on to me.

 

[Father Luke]

In my humble opinion, Jeff Weddle had a becoming modesty.

 

[mjp]

Bye bye, bukowski.net.

What a tragedy.

Weddle posted on this forum 6 times and he arrived ostensibly to promote his Loujon book.

Might I suggest the problem with esotouric is the product rather than the MO?

Absolutely. But maybe not in exactly the way you're thinking.

Weddle created something, it was of interest to many Bukowski readers. Lost in the Grooves LLC, d/b/a Esotouric on the other hand, has created --- what, exactly?

I mean, I've been over this in the other threads, but in my opinion, the people who run Esotouric are parasites, to put it bluntly. They create nothing, and try to sell you empty pseudo-experiences and cheap souvenir garbage that exploits the names and achievements of people who actually did create something. And that parasitic behavior is perfectly illustrated by their use of this forum - that we have created and nurtured - to shill their crap. This is nothing but an information and advertising resource to them. If they're going to treat this place that way, I say fuck them.

This is not a commercial venue. Look around, do you see ads? Do you know there's a plugin I could install on this forum that would turn every title of every Bukowski book ever typed in this forum into a link to an Amazon order page? With a small cut of each sale going to me, of course. I wouldn't do something like that in a million years. So for Lost in the Grooves LLC, d/b/a Esotouric to come in and use this as their own commercial venue is fucked, and that's what rubs me the wrong way. If that's hypocritical, then color me the world's biggest hypocrite.

Anyone who wants to go on one of their bus tours or buy their garbage can visit their web site. I'm certainly not stopping you. You just won't read about it here.

...you have no rights to use that photograph.

Are you referring to this photograph?

Admittedly not my best work. A rush job, you know. But I actually do have a right to use it. Copyright law (Section 107) provides that "the fair use of a copyrighted work...for purposes such as criticism [or] comment...is not an infringement..."

Consider yourself criticized.

 

[ROC]

In my humble opinion, Jeff Weddle had a becoming modesty.

Sure, no doubt.

Absolutely. But maybe not in exactly the way you're thinking.

Weddle created something, it was of interest to many Bukowski readers. Lost in the Grooves LLC, d/b/a Esotouric on the other hand, has created --- what, exactly?

OK. Your house. Your rules. No problem.. as I said - I don't really care, just throwing it out there.

 

[esotouric]

mjp, I'd suggest you read the reviews our tours have received and also the reviews my three books have received before you suggest that what we're doing is parasitical.

I can only imaging that you're making the assumption that our passengers get in a bus and are driven to a series of addresses, with nothing contributed beyond a "look at this, somebody lived here." That's just not the case. Each thematic tour is a biographical narrative, with complex stories unfolding over the course of the journey. We're proud of the work we do, and constantly working to improve it, and our relationships with the people and places who should be part of each tour.

I personally have spent my life writing about underappreciated culture, first as editor of Scram magazine, then with two anthologies dedicated to celebrating musical artists whose work has slipped through the cracks, then with an oral history of Neutral Milk Hotel that's also about how when an artist has friends who love and support them, they can do things they wouldn't otherwise be capable of.

I have a d/b/a called Lost in the Grooves, which Esotouric also functions under, specifically so I can work to license some of the masters of underappreciated musical artists who never made any money to speak of off their music to film and TV clients. When you represent different people's work, it's standard to use a d/b/a. There's nothing sinister about it, yet you keep mentioning it as if it were proof that what we're doing is corrupt.

I'm one of the good guys, and my life and work speak to that.

Finally, mjp, it seems like we've been through this once before. The last time I explained what we were doing, you replied somewhat positively.
https://bukowskiforum.com/showpost.php?p=21727

How many times do I need to explain and defend our work before you stop assuming the worst of well-meaning, hard-working people who are just trying to raise the visibility of your favorite writer?

 

[Father Luke]

mjp, I'd suggest you read the reviews our tours have received and also the reviews my three books have received before you suggest that what we're doing is parasitical.

It would be easier if you gave him a chance to think you were something other than par--- wait. I'll speak for myself. How'zat?

It would be easier for me, just some random schmo poster, -- on a Forum at what may arguably be called Charles Bukowski's homepage, where people come to discuss things about Charles Bukowski,-- it would be easier for me to tend to believe that you are something other than a money makin' operation, spamming a board if you made more posts like these: C L I C K.

I can only imaging that you're making the assumption that our passengers get in a bus and are driven to a series of addresses, with nothing contributed beyond a "look at this, somebody lived here." That's just not the case. Each thematic tour is a biographical narrative, with complex stories unfolding over the course of the journey. We're proud of the work we do, and constantly working to improve it, and our relationships with the people and places who should be part of each tour.

I'm one of the good guys, and my life and work speak to that.

But not your posts here. Dig? My experience of you here is succinctly summed up in this post: C L I C K

Finally, mjp, it seems like we've been through this once before. The last time I explained what we were doing, you replied somewhat positively.
https://bukowskiforum.com/showpost.php?p=21727&postcount=15

How many times do I need to explain and defend our work before you stop assuming the worst of well-meaning, hard-working people who are just trying to raise the visibility of your favorite writer?

Someone is missing what the point is.

C L I C K vs C L I C K

What's the word, Thunderbird.

 

[esotouric]

Yes, and it follows that perhaps if I hadn't been made to feel so unwelcome here, and seen Lauren from the Delongpre preservation campaign made to feel unwelcome, I'd have been more inclined to hang out when time allowed and make more posts like the book store suggestion. But who but a masochist wants to spend more time than necessary -- and it is necessary to get word out about these tours if we're going to keep offering them -- where they're vilified?

Just a side note: I just got off the phone with John Dullaghan-- you know, the fellow whose film "Born into This" has an entire section on this forum dedicated to it? He said that Linda Bukowski called him last night to wish him and the tour well, and told him a bunch of fun facts about her husband that he'll be sharing with the passengers today.

 

[Father Luke]

Name dropping.
More commercials.
Name calling.

I can't think of a more unappealing afternoon than hanging in that kind of company.

I'll pass.

 

[mjp]

mjp, I'd suggest you read the reviews our tours have received...before you suggest that what we're doing is parasitical.

I said, "...in my opinion, the people who run Esotouric are parasites..." That differentiates between you as a person and your work.

I have a d/b/a called Lost in the Grooves...There's nothing sinister about it, yet you keep mentioning it as if it were proof that what we're doing is corrupt.

I thought you had a d/b/a/ called Esotouric and an LLC called Lost in the Grooves. One of us seems to be a little confused about how your businesses are structured. I'm just reading your site.

I bring it up to emphasize the point that you are running a business, not a philanthropic organization, as you would seem to like everyone to believe.

I'm one of the good guys, and my life and work speak to that.

I never suggested that you weren't a good person. You have a habit of twisting people's intent to fit with your defensive responses (the "martyr" in SHILLING MARTYR). It makes me question how accurate any of your writing can possibly be.

What I said was that you were a parasite. There are entire classes of entertaining parasites; music and movie reviewers, etc. But in my opinion they create nothing, and without the work of actual creative people to feed off, they would cease to exist - or have to go get real jobs.

How many times do I need to explain and defend our work before you stop assuming the worst of well-meaning, hard-working people who are just trying to raise the visibility of your favorite writer?

When you stop selling merchandise related to Bukowski I will stop assuming the worst. That is where this whole thing started, and that is where it will end.

My perception of what you are doing is up to you.

 

[jordan]

i think that the person from the save delongpre campaign got a decent welcome... it was really mjp going up against her, while multiple people were defending her. shit, if she's dealing with the LA CITY COUNCIL, you'd think her skin would be thick enough to withstand FORUM POSTERS. the bukowski board isn't this whole purists-only, we-will-safeguard-his-works-in-the-crypt operation that you are making it out to be. i'm going to start another sentence with "shit" in just a moment. shit, just look at the number of people posting here. it's not like we got together in a back-door webgreement at some point, anointed ourselves the keepers of the buk, and made this forum specifically to exclude those who were working tooth and nail to popularize buk around town. i found this place and was welcomed. i post here all the time. so did many MANY others. just look at some of the threads on the all things bukowski board, and you'll see that many of them are created by new posters who are getting honest, intelligent responses to their questions or positions.

here's the circularity of this argument... you have been asked (at least by me) before - nicely, and friendlyly - to post more and join discussions. your response is that we're shits and why would you want to? so why the F are you continuing to post what is essentially spam? and yes, i'm sorry kim, but it is spam when you cut and paste the description of the bukbird print (which i will recognize as an original representation of a stock character TM draws all the time, and which i kind of like to boot) directly into this forum. seriously, i mean, you could just put a link to your site in your signature or something.

i realize the position you're coming from that you want to popularize something that would be of interest to people here, and i'm sympathetic to that. but when that is coupled with your implicit disdain for everyone here (when MJP is really the only one who has openly attacked you, and although he's the man in charge, he's just one guy among many)-- and be honest that it really is implicit disdain, given that you so much as said that the reason you don't post here more is that you don't like us-- it is a stretch to get people to take your commercial endeavors seriously.

also, let it be noted that i have defended your company in the past, as well as your motives. i have no problem with what you're doing, and i don't necessarily think that the bus tour would be a boring thing. however, you have to realize that you are selling a fairly esoteric product (OH YEAH, three points for me on the pun), and one that is going to get ripped on a lot. it's fantastic that you have linda b's blessing, that john dullaghan is involved, and that you are getting positive write ups. but i think the point here is that, even if your tours were the best things in the history of human experience, it's the way you sell them while pretty much utterly refusing to participate in the FORUM aspect of this FORUM that really cheeses a lot of people off, ESPECIALLY the guy who has spent a lot of time and money to make this place for all of us.

it's really no different than the people that show up to sell bukowski t-shirts or whatever. hundreds of spammers are kicked out every day, and your posts have all been allowed onto the board, which means that, as annoying as it has been for the moderator (i'll speak for him, since he's made that abundantly clear), he's let it go, probably (i'm assuming) BECAUSE it may be of interest to people here. now, if criticism by forum members is too much for you, then so be it. but as the central information resource on the net for bukowski, maybe you could stand to benefit a little bit from what is offered here, rather than using it as a marketing resource? maybe???

 

[chronic]

Friendlyly??? Is that ebonics?

 

[mjp]

It's Bukbonics. Check back soon for Bukbonics t-shirts, diaper pants and beer steins.

 

[jordan]

can't a guy use words that aren't words without getting made fun of?

i also used "webgreement," but no one is making fun of that.

you guys are perceptabulous, you are.

 

[justine]

'friendlyly' is a new zealish word.

 

[Father Luke]

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves Did gyre and gimble in the wabe

can't a guy use words that aren't wwhsyds without getting mjksksn of?

i also used "webgreement," but no one is mjksksn fun of that.

you gimsoftrs are perceptabulous, you are.

What did he just say?