10/27: Haunts of a Dirty Old Man: Charles Bukowski's LA tour (1 Viewer)

I have to say, the whole profit thing means nothing. If you're going to bash esotouric for making money off of Buk, I guess you would have to bash a really long list of people.

I went on the tour. I had a great time. I got to discuss Bukowski with John Dullagan and and other fans of Bukowski and through these discussions with key people, it only strengthens my dedication to the man and the wonderful gift he left for us all. Besides, it was fun and I consider myself an above average fan and for me it's exciting to see the places because it's not only about the building but it's about space, east hollywood to downtown to san pedro. Those areas represent different phases in his work and life and I think it's very interesting to see those places. Maybe I'm just a boring guy but when they pointed out the firehouse where "firehouse" comes from, it was fun to imagine Jane walking in acting innocent while she fucked everyone in the fire station and Buk took the money while playing cards. Think of those times...it's amazing and all esotouric is doing is bringing you one step closer to being able to imagine those truly foundational points in Bukowski's life.

The whole profit thing doesn't hold much ground. The bus was packed with mostly people who are either fan or maybe just heard the name or read a book or two and everyone came out equally as pleased.

This tour was better then the last and I'm sure the next one will be even better. Charter Buses aren't cheap and I don't think Esotouric is becoming millionaires. They actually very nice people who have a genuine interested in Los Angeles and Los Angeles History. I'm looking forward to the crime tour next time around.

and John Dullaghan is a superb human being. Just a nice guy and very knowledgeable...obviously. For most celebrity hounds, seeing some big name actor gets people excited, but for me, for some of us on this board, seeing John Dullaghan is like meeting Martin Scorsese or something and then to find out he's NOT a Hollywood prick is even better.

I'm not one of those types that Buk should only be read by those that deserve to read Bukowski. I think it should be read by everyone...I think it should be mandatory :-) So I think it's a rather positive move for Esotouric to spread to word to those who may not be familiar with Buk's work. I think the world would be a better place if more people read Buk. I'm not kidding. The truth is that Bukowski will sort them out. No one else needs to. His writing continues to infiltrate the minds of the willing.

No I did not get paid to say this...but I'm not against it either. :-)

Thanks
-jeremy
 

bospress.net

www.bospress.net
Hi,
I have nothing against Esotoutic, but the idea that they find us an unpleasant bunch and only post here when they HAVE to while promoting their business is what bothers me. They have made it known that they avoid our presence as much as is possible, only showing up to promote themselves whenever they have seats on their bus to fill. That is far different than a member posting something for sale and then leting us know about it and selling it to the first person interested. Sure, these members are making money off of the site, but they are also contributing and are here because they want to be here and not because it is a great way to drum up business.

And truthfully, I don't have anything against Esotouric, or the DeLongpre folks. I just don't like feeling like I'm being used any more than I like it when we see the folks post spam on this forum while PRETENDING that they have an intereste in this forum, when, in fact, it is all part of a way to line their pockets and they could not tell you the difference between Bukowski and Bonsai....

Bill
 
In the interest of openness why not create a Shilling Martyr thread where anyone who wants to pimp anything Buk can post-of course if that thread leads to a virus that destroys the posting computer or blocks them from ever entering another thread then....well thats what happens to martyrs.
 

mjp

Founding member
Jeremy, I'm sure the bus rides are fun for a lot of people. The Bukowski tours are only a small part of Esotouric's business though. But you may have noticed that they do not have four pages of Black Dahlia, John Fante or Crime Clown garbage for sale. Why not? Where are the Raymond Chandler shot glasses, baby bibs and tote bags? Why is it only Bukowski they "honor" in that way?

Look at it this way; Black Sparrow never tried to sell you a Bukowski tote bag or baby bib. Anyone who does - in my opinion - is no different than the souvenir shops on Hollywood boulevard or the nickel and dime losers on eBay hawking their "vintage" t-shirts and refrigerator magnets. It's all shit.

And what's with people (not just Jeremy) saying, "they aren't becoming millionaires"? It's like the old "would you have sex with me for a million dollars" joke. We have already established the fact that they are whores. The rest is just haggling over price.
 
Well, actually, just to be fair, the little magnet thing I purchased, you know, those word magnets that you're supposed to arrange into something witty for your refrigerator...well this "product" is made by ecco/HarperCollinsPublishers.

"You Should Be Reading

CHARLES BUKOWSKI
ecco
Am Imprint of HarperCollinsPublishers
www.harpercollins.com
---------------------------------------
see your HarperCollins sales rep to order
or call 1-800-242-7737"

I like the magnet that says "whore" personally. You said Black Sparrow, so I guess technically you're right, but I'm making an assumption that you're including the current publisher as well.

A Bukowski baby bib would be kind of funny in my opinion.

-jeremy
 

cirerita

Founding member
Ecco is not by a long shot BSP. Different marketing strategies, different approach to their products, different budget... and I was going to say, different author as well ;)
 

mjp

Founding member
A Bukowski baby bib would be kind of funny in my opinion.
Maybe it would be, but who should profit from it? And who should decide if it is an appropriate product to use Bukowski to sell? Shouldn't that be up to his estate?

Well, actually, just to be fair, the little magnet thing I purchased, you know, those word magnets that you're supposed to arrange into something witty for your refrigerator...well this "product" is made by ecco/HarperCollinsPublishers.
I was referring to the bootleg junk on eBay, not an HC/Ecco promo item.
 

mjp

Founding member
It's an old joke:

Man: Would you have sex with me for a million dollars?
Woman: Well...I suppose I would, yes.
Man: Would you have sex with me for $10?
Woman: Of course not! What do you think I am!?
Man: We've already established what you are, now we're just haggling over price.

A few people (including Kim) have said they are "not getting rich" by exploiting Bukowski, which seems to be some sort of justification for the exploitation being okay.

So my question is, at what price is it not okay anymore? $1,000? $100,000? Half a million?

If you think it would be wrong for them to become millionaires exploiting Bukowski, and I think it's wrong that they make $1 exploiting Bukowski, then we believe the same thing. We just assign a different number to it.
 
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ROC

It is what it is
It's an old joke:

Man: Would you have sex with me for a million dollars?
Woman: Well...I suppose I would, yes.
Man: Would you have sex with me for $10?
Woman: Of course not! What do you think I am!?
Man: We've already established what you are, now we're just haggling over price.

Attributed to Mark Twain, no?
 

Father Luke

Founding member
It's an old joke:

Man: Would you have sex with me for a million dollars?
Woman: Well...I suppose I would, yes.
Man:

(snip)

Man: I'll take a dollar's worth.

That's an old jail house joke,
which should put the rest of the post in a somewhat different context.

See if it don't.

A few people (including Kim) have said they are "not getting rich" by exploiting Bukowski, which seems to be some sort of justification for the exploitation being okay.

So my question is, at what price is it not okay anymore? $1,000? $100,000? Half a million?

I'll take a dollar's worth.

If you think it would be wrong for them to become millionaires exploiting Bukowski, and I think it's wrong that they make $1 exploiting Bukowski, then we believe the same thing. We just assign a different number to it.

i can dig it.
 
i can dig it too--honestly, i hadn't given it much thought, but i think mjp makes an entirely logical and, i have to say, entertaining argument. mjp--are you a lawyer in real life?
 

Bukfan

"The law is wrong; I am right"
It's an old joke...
I see. It sounds like something Groucho Marx could have said (yes, I'm a marxist too - of the Groucho kind :) )!

I'm with you! Exploitation is exploitation - the dollar figures are secondary!
 
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Am I really that big an asshole?
No, you're not an asshole, but the wit and slightly acerbic charm of the argument definitely help make your point. And I think, I could be wrong, but that is part of why esotouric couldn't really say "good-bye bukowski.net" and had to come back for an attempt at a final word.

Also, for what it's worth, the reply about esotouric's--whom I have nothing against, I suppose--request to take the "shilling martyr" photo down: priceless.
 

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