Don't forget to vote! (1 Viewer)

[Andreas]

Look back in history to see how Adolf Hitler rose to power ... I don't believe most of his early supporters would have elected him if they knew what he was really capable of.

We could argue this point.
Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in 1924 and it became a bestseller before he got into power in 1933. I've never read that book, but from all I know Hitler clearly outlined his political ideology, gave a lecture on "the Jewish peril" and openly stated the future German expansion in the East. So I think people knew quite well what he stood for.

 

[Skygazer]

Clinton wasn't right for this election. Sanders would have been a better fit or should have been, but would it have changed the outcome? I'm not sure.
Trump's simplistic messages tapped into the fears of white middle and working class whites. The two major concerns of Europeans and Americans; the economic slump and the refugee/immigration "crisis" has loomed large. Making America Great Again - Trump's fight against globalisation worked because - the winners aren't going to be us, the 21st century will be Asia's. Globalisation has leveled the playing field on the wealth disparity for the new emerging economies and the One percenters in the west.

For middle and working class white Trump voters in the manufacturing and energy producing states it wasn't a vote against their best interests, when they fear their society is on the brink of collapse or threatened by outsiders (even when it's not), if it's constantly referred to in the right wing media and feverish talk shows, they don't vote for the party that will introduce a better minimum wage,healthcare system and touchy feely social issues. They vote for nutcases evidently... and historically.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There is no doubt in my mind that after having to deal with a black president for 8 years, that many Trump voters could not simply handle a woman being president. If you look at American History, wowen are always the last to get their rights, so maybe this isn't a surprise -- but it was certainly disappointing. Just the way people talked about her -- it was like the Salem witch trials. But the fact is, 100 Million Americans didn't vote. And many women turned on Hilary for their own personal reasons. So that's what we got.

In defense to Mr. Stickpin --FUCKING VOTE NEXT TIME. DON'T ACT LIKE A STUPID EUTOPIAN ASS WIPE THAT SAYS THERE WASN'T A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. THERE WAS A HUGE DIFFERENCE AND MANY PEOPLE MAY PAY FOR YOUR SPOILED FUCKING VIEWS -- INCLUDING YOU.
And while I could have empathized with Colin Kaepernick before, the fact that he didn't vote makes me feel like he is a self absorbed subnormal piece of shit who should become a politician.

 

[mjp]

Be not afraid.

 

[Erik]

We could argue this point.
Hitler wrote Mein Kampf in 1924 and it became a bestseller before he got into power in 1933. I've never read that book, but from all I know Hitler clearly outlined his political ideology, gave a lecture on "the Jewish peril" and openly stated the future German expansion in the East. So I think people knew quite well what he stood for.

Andreas: H got elected the first time before writing mein kampf, didn't he?

 

[bospress.net]

Manufacturing jobs are not coming back. Trump may want to bring them back, but if he does, they will be in "Right-to-work" states with NO unions. I, for one, would not want a factory job at $7.50 an hour with NO benefits, but that is what it will be. We are a global economy and there is no way to reverse that. Import taxes will not help. It will only raise what we pay for stuff. No sane car manufacturer would pay $30 an hour (plus benefits) in the US for what they can pay $2 an hour (with no benefits, and no environmental or safety regulations) for in India. We don't need to make our poorest citizens even poorer by making them work for peanuts*.

United states manufacturing is dead. You would have just as much luck opening a typewriter manufacturing company or a Blockbuster video. Technology has changed.

If we had smart leadership (we now will have a government that believes that climate change is a hoax because it still snows sometimes), we would be investing in renewables. AMAZING for our economy AND environment. Instead we will let the Chinese make all the money from this while we wait for jobs that will never come back. I saw recently the hexagonal tiles that are solar panels. Every road int he country could be outfitted with them and we would have enough energy to power the earth many times over. We should start with I95 as there are MILLIONS of people that drive that every day (especially politicians.) An added bonus is that road repairs are easy. No tar, but pop out the panel and install a new one. As long as we have a government that caters to people that only want the quick buck (like from fracking and coal mining), people that think that it is all a hoax, people wanting a catastrophe so that their jesus can come back, this will never happen.

</rant>

* if we were smart and had any kind of morals, we would demand that all items imported into this country be made by people being paid a certain minimum wage and with certain safeguards. This would stop the slave labor/child labor... Imagine if our government passed a law imposing a 100% tarriff on anything imported into this country unless the manufacturer could prove that he was paying his people a fair wage with benefits. It would be tough at first, but I think that if others followed suit, it would force the issue. Raising pay in China would make it more profitable to make the cars where you are selling them

 

[skiroomalum]

I love that euphemistic language.
"Right to work=right to be fired."

 

[bospress.net]

"Right to work=right to be fired."

"Right to work" = right to work for less.

That being said, the south and Midwest vote for anti-union leaders today will keep them poor.

This is the future or our country. A race to the bottom.

 

[mjp]

In all fairness, we really had to start preparing for the death of manufacturing jobs about 30 years ago if we wanted to be in a good position today, and obviously we didn't do that (and still haven't done it). The rise of the small computer should have been a sign to really smart people that everything was about to change.

I know we didn't see it coming in the printing industry (the small press/small shop industry, I should say, which used to be a large industry and now doesn't exist), and it's only by dumb luck that I avoided being so tremendously screwed that I would have voted for Trump last week.

That doesn't explain people cutting their own throats now of course, that's a different issue. But as a country, we never prepared for this, but other countries did. So our current state shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

 

[bospress.net]

You are right, MJP, we are behind the ball on this one, but the sad thing is that so many still REFUSE to see it. BEcause they still DENY reality, they are not willing to consider changing. These Drumpf voters think that he will snap his tiny fingers and factory jobs at amazing wages will flock here. The only reason that any manufacturing jobs will come back is if they can get the labor at slave levels. I see a time in the near future where we have a LOT more people working at MUCH lower wages. We'll bring back what my family (and MANY others) did in the Bronx in the early 1900s; a family of 14 in a 2 bedroom apartment. This included grown children and their spouses.We are on a downward spiral and the driving factor is the inability (or willful ignorance) to see it. The emperor had no clothes and we are the emperor.

The printing industry analogy is a great one. Sadly, there are still people trying to make it as TV & VCR repairmen. These are people that have failed to understand that they are in a DEAD, not dying, industry.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

In defense to Mr. Stickpin --FUCKING VOTE NEXT TIME. DON'T ACT LIKE A STUPID EUTOPIAN ASS WIPE THAT SAYS THERE WASN'T A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO. THERE WAS A HUGE DIFFERENCE AND MANY PEOPLE MAY PAY FOR YOUR SPOILED FUCKING VIEWS -- INCLUDING YOU.

I did vote; thanks for asking.

 

[PhillyDave]

Andreas: H got elected the first time before writing mein kampf, didn't he?

The book came out in 1925. Hitler lost the 1932 presidential election but was appointed chancellor in 1933.
*This info was already posted. I've been posting too quickly. sorry about that.

 

[Andreas]

Andreas: H got elected the first time before writing mein kampf, didn't he?

No, he didn't, as far as I know.
By the way, I really enjoyed your article, Erik. Good job!

 

[esart]

Even before 1923, Hitler was releasing excerpts of what would become Mein Kampf in leaflets and such. My paternal grandfather's family caught wind of it and left Hungary as soon as they read one. NONE of our extended family would believe what they were telling them even when it was there in black and white. They were not unlike most Jews, or even white Germans. No one believed it was possible. And we all know what happened to the rest of Hungary for those that didn't listen. That still didn't make them naive. It was inconceivable. And not everyone was able to leave even when they tried.

 

[Skygazer]

[.. We are a global economy and there is no way to reverse that. Import taxes will not help. It will only raise what we pay for stuff..]
[... if we were smart and had any kind of morals, we would demand that all items imported into this country be made by people being paid a certain minimum wage and with certain safeguards. This would stop the slave labor/child labor... Imagine if our government passed a law imposing a 100% tarriff on anything imported into this country unless the manufacturer could prove that he was paying his people a fair wage with benefits..]

How to reconcile those two things is the problem, protectionism and trade emabargos hurt the same people you try to safeguard. Globalisation has dragged hundreds of millions of people out of poverty across the world and given them a step on the ladder, achieved of course on the backs of their exploitation and labour, as it was with ours 200 years ago, workers benefits and rights trail behind wealth creation in a capitalist world. It shouldn't be a free for all and ethical companies need more support and investment. But where globalisation has lagged, often due to unstable pollitical regimes, the poverty levels remain the worst. We need to accept a smaller piece of the pie in exchange for wealth creation elsewhere.

I don't think the West is about to implode on itself despite Trump's win. Wall St backed Clinton because she wasn't Trump, or his protectionism, which will ultimately hurt American workers too. What a weird election. It's been a really sad week watching Obama's farewell tour of Europe as President. In October he wrote a piece for The Economist (and I'll choose to believe it wasn't scripted) agreed with most of it and the things he didn't get to do.
http://www.economist.com/news/brief...ur-crucial-areas-unfinished-business-economic

 

[Faramir]

I don't generally follow politics closely, but from what I've seen over the years this had to be the dirtiest election I can remember, shit being flung from left, right and centre. Talking of shit, a choice between Clinton and Trump was like someone holding out their hands and asking you to pick between a cat turd and a dog turd, I think people chose the turd they thought might stink less. Shitty leaders for shitty times.

 

[skiroomalum]

If you really think the "dog turd-cat turd" analogy is an accurate reflection of the election players or results, you're probably stupid enough to be an American.
But like you said, you don't follow politics too closely.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't generally follow politics closely.

I usually respect master Skiroom ways of responding, but he let you off too easy.

You should make it a point in the next year to lick Kanye West's ass before he wipes. Because stupid fucks like you and Kanye can't tell the difference between a pinky up your ass or a fist.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

I made a similar analogy not too long ago and I'd note that I did not get a similar response. Either I deserve it as well or you're looking for easy prey. Your choice to you both.

 

[skiroomalum]

You're right. I felt the same about your opinion.

 

[mjp]

The majority of voters (in a record turnout) wanted Trump, so now they've got Trump.

Turns out this was wrong on both counts: it was far from a record turnout and the popular vote went to Clinton by a large margin.

This thread is probably wrong too. It's clearly headed down the road to animosity, so let's not take it there.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You want it darker?

We kill the flame.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Would have preferred the studio cut, but this will do I guess

 

[PhillyDave]

The bats are in the belfry, the dew is on the moore

 

[hoochmonkey9]

Pickled eggs are best with lightnin' bugs, lightnin' bugs.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

 

[Andreas]

Trump Shows Great Learning Ability!!!

Once he said that the concept of global warming was created by the Chinese.
Now he says humans somehow contribute to climate change.

I am truly impressed.

 

[PhillyDave]

I am not. He is an ass and everything that comes out of his mouth is shit.

 

[mjp]

ALL THE CAMPAIGN PROMISES DONALD TRUMP HAS BROKEN IN THE LAST 24 HOURS
That sound you hear is the alt-right's heart breaking.

 

[roni]

CAMPAIGN PROMISES DONALD TRUMP HAS BROKEN IN THE LAST 24 HOURS

haven't read it yet, but: isn't it Good if he does Not, what he was saying he'd do?

(by which I dont want to give the implication, that I'm not seeing a dark dark very dark near future for the US as well as for the whole world due to this man being your persident.

I still remember, when I first read of him: that was in the mid-80s in a German magazine about New York, where he was introduced as the guy who ruins the whole city by his buziness-behaviour. I still remember how much I hated him reading about it. Now he will go to lead a whole country (and not even a minor one) just like he made buziness back then.)

 

[mjp]

Yes it's good if he doesn't keep his promises.

But it's also bad in a way, because it could lull people into thinking, "Oh, maybe he won't be that bad..."

 

[skiroomalum]

Can he actually renege on promises before he assumes office? Based on his cabinet picks so far, there's not much ideological nuance.

 

[Andreas]

it could lull people into thinking, "Oh, maybe he won't be that bad..."

Quite the opposite: We now have the evidence that he is a fucking liar.

 

[mjp]

Everyone knows he's a liar. The problem, here in this country anyway, is the normalization of the idea of President Trump. Now that the election is over it's just more and more people who were vehemently opposed to Trump now saying, "Oh well, it is what it is," because they (probably rightfully) feel like there's nothing that can be done about it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

For those of us in the good old USA... Do your best to make it through. .. One of my favorite bands and one of my favorite sons.

 

[mjp]

Man of the people?

 

[bospress.net]

I'm not 100% sure that the drumpf photo is accurate. That being said, I was at Obama's first inauguration (with Strangegirl and two of my kids) and it was PACKED. The closest that you could get was a view of a jumbotron. Could not even see the capitol. I also went to Clinton's and Reagan's first (we lived near DC at the time and my mom wanted to witness history, even though we were NOT fans of his.) From what I understand, there are three times more buses reserved for the women's march tomorrow than for the coronation of the pussy-grabber-in-chief. Still, Alex Jones will lie and claim that there were 5 million people there and the tax-evader-in-chief will tweet about how it is the most people ever for an inauguration.

It took us hours of waiting to get on the train out of DC. We were surrounded by the mostly African-American's and we all had a great time waiting. No fighting, no pushing... Even the cops seemed happy. It was a SCARY amount of people to be all in one place and it was painfully cold. Well below freezing.

Bill

 

[mjp]

I'm not 100% sure that the drumpf photo is accurate.

It came from PBS, but I suppose it could be fake news. ;)

 

[LickTheStar]

The Man of SOME People.

 

[bospress.net]

It came from PBS, but I suppose it could be fake news. ;)

Then that is AMAZING. I had heard someone say that the drumpf foto was from earlier in the day, but they were probably listening to Faux News...