I think 'Journey To The End Of The Night' was awsome. And I totally saw where Buk got some of his style in it. In a good way, of course.
So, Bukowski was a big fan of Celine. Are you?
- Thread starter Dzerzhinsk
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That was an interesting read...it's been a while, so I can't say much more. Buk did say several times in his work that he really like "Journey," but that Celine never produced anything near it in quality. Specifically, I think he mentions "Death on the Installment Plan" as being disappointing. Come to think of it, I couldn't name another Celine title other than those two.
jordan
lothario speedwagon
i've often wondered if bukowski read any other celine books. i agree with him that journey is the best, but it's also the easiest to read by a long shot. toward the end of death on the installment plan, celine's writing becomes difficult to follow (three words, three dots, three words, three dots), and his trilogy that he wrote toward the end of his life is almost impenetrable.
[spoiler alert; if you're planning on reading journey, that is]
the thing about celine that i find interesting is that he frames journey as this grand statement about his frustration with the world, and he ends on this really sad, defeated note; "i've said all there is to say about the world, it's never going to change, so i give up" (my interpretation, not an exact quotation). then, celine produces book after book of progressively angrier diatribes, because he never really could follow his own advice to stop talking. so, i see the course of his career as someone who became totally addicted to writing; someone, to pinch bukowski's idea, whom writing found, rather than someone who decided to be a writer. i guess i feel like buk would have recognized this if he really thought about it, although the impenetrable writing was probably just a major turn-off to him.
also, there's the fascism stuff, which is a gigantic topic in itself (and which i assumed turned off buk, despite some people's insistence that buk was a nazi sympathizer). where am i? is this not the celine forum? sorry...
[spoiler alert; if you're planning on reading journey, that is]
the thing about celine that i find interesting is that he frames journey as this grand statement about his frustration with the world, and he ends on this really sad, defeated note; "i've said all there is to say about the world, it's never going to change, so i give up" (my interpretation, not an exact quotation). then, celine produces book after book of progressively angrier diatribes, because he never really could follow his own advice to stop talking. so, i see the course of his career as someone who became totally addicted to writing; someone, to pinch bukowski's idea, whom writing found, rather than someone who decided to be a writer. i guess i feel like buk would have recognized this if he really thought about it, although the impenetrable writing was probably just a major turn-off to him.
also, there's the fascism stuff, which is a gigantic topic in itself (and which i assumed turned off buk, despite some people's insistence that buk was a nazi sympathizer). where am i? is this not the celine forum? sorry...
Celine's first two are great, and Buk obviously reframed the intro of JOURNEY for the opening line to POST OFFICE.
His other stuff is worth checking out just because he influenced so many other writers - Burroughs, Kerouac, Kosinski, et al - but the books about him are often even more interesting than the books by him.
His other stuff is worth checking out just because he influenced so many other writers - Burroughs, Kerouac, Kosinski, et al - but the books about him are often even more interesting than the books by him.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
I just loved Céline's Death on the Installment Plan, even more than Journey...
I laughed and cried. It kept me amazed right through ... even peppered
with the 3 ...
I laughed and cried. It kept me amazed right through ... even peppered
with the 3 ...
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HenryChinaski
Founding member
Journey to the end of night was really hard to read for me. i got halfway through and put it down. i dunno about his other stuff but i think i'll pass.
thebluesman
Founding member
Journey took me a good six months to get through for some reason, but I'm glad it did. My copy is full of notes and scratches and underlinings merely because it took me so long to digest.
I was reading it while I was moving back from Germany to the U.S. and a lot of the things Celine talks about I actually felt in my travels. So for that, I really really love it.
It had some bits that I felt dragged on and you never felt that the story was going to end, but then again, I guess that's the point.
All in all, I think it was amazing. As much as I hate the french, I love their writers!
... "be nice, die quickly."
I was reading it while I was moving back from Germany to the U.S. and a lot of the things Celine talks about I actually felt in my travels. So for that, I really really love it.
It had some bits that I felt dragged on and you never felt that the story was going to end, but then again, I guess that's the point.
All in all, I think it was amazing. As much as I hate the french, I love their writers!
... "be nice, die quickly."
I read 'the trouble with being born.'
very effective.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
Reading Bukowski is like an old pair of shoes
reading Fante like a savory home cooked meal
reading Céline is like wearing a crazy hat
reading Fante like a savory home cooked meal
reading Céline is like wearing a crazy hat
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Sweet! Spot on.
Don't forget that the crazy hat is a product of some strange primordial ooze, emanating from the eye of a long-passed lizard, killed whilst copulating with a pterodactyl and several bunnies, whilst grooving in a pict.
Don't forget that the crazy hat is a product of some strange primordial ooze, emanating from the eye of a long-passed lizard, killed whilst copulating with a pterodactyl and several bunnies, whilst grooving in a pict.
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Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
I was going to say...
I read Journey to the End of the Night earlier this year. And yeah, it literally took me 6 months to read: I kept renewing it, bringing it back and renewing it. I did like it, but I struggled. That said, as I've said, I struggle to read anything other than Bukowski really - he's spoiled me. Journey had some beautiful sentiments, and yes, I can see the influence.
'Journey' has for me one of the most heartbreaking scenes, when Celine says goodbye to his prostitute girlfriend, Molly. They wait together in a Detroit train station for the train that will take him away. He actually sends a message out to Molly in the writing, asking her to contact to him if she reads 'this', and professing his love for her, calling himself a fool for leaving her. It's very personal, and touching.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
Céline gets to me that way as well. What made me cry was in Death on the Installment Plan after Courtial shoots himself and the crazy family is no longer. He then walks the streets lost and crying, thinking of the awkward love, but love, he had received from him.
Remember Bukowski puts Céline first at the bat . . .
Remember Bukowski puts Céline first at the bat . . .
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has anyone read his last books such as Castle to Castle etc. A flower of hatred, but that Journey book..ffffuuuccckkk...there won't be another
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
Presently reading in French, Casse Pipe followed by Carnet du Cuirassier Destouches, obviously in French, written in 1952, after his exile in Germany, back in Meudon.
autobiographic recollection ,notes as a soldier .
His hatred of mediocrity is described brilliantly. Will find out the translated title, if anyone wants to know.
autobiographic recollection ,notes as a soldier .
His hatred of mediocrity is described brilliantly. Will find out the translated title, if anyone wants to know.
jordan
lothario speedwagon
has anyone seen the celine books illustrated by jacques tardi? they're very cool- some of my favorite books.
is casse-pipe translated into english? i didn't think it was. although i hate nazis and am generally friendly to the french resistance, i wish they hadn't burned the rest of casse-pipe.
is casse-pipe translated into english? i didn't think it was. although i hate nazis and am generally friendly to the french resistance, i wish they hadn't burned the rest of casse-pipe.
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
I have read somewhere that casse pipe was translated as Shooting Gallery but I've never seen it.
Bukfan
"The law is wrong; I am right"
No, but I've read many of Tardi's graphic novels. He has a great style and is considered to be one of the great comic book artists of our time...
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Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
Buk poem on reading Céline
Out of the night torn mad with footsteps by Buk
(out of the money) p.108
Of Céline,
"I laughed out loud at the crazy truth
bounced on the springs
turned and beat the mattress with my
fist, thinking, nobody can write like
this, this is the beginning and the middle
and the end of it
all!"
Out of the night torn mad with footsteps by Buk
(out of the money) p.108
Of Céline,
"I laughed out loud at the crazy truth
bounced on the springs
turned and beat the mattress with my
fist, thinking, nobody can write like
this, this is the beginning and the middle
and the end of it
all!"
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I didn't really grasp the significance of the last paragraph in "Journey", does anyone have any thoughts on this? (I don't want to post the text to avoid spoiling it for anyone)
Black Swan
Abord the Yorikke!
The last paragraph is a very abstract vision. As if the tugboat passed and pulled everything along , including the set and the actors. A very theatrical ending and existential concept. With Robinson dies the purpose, the story.
Is it in Ferdinand? Has he been shot and does not know it yet?
For me the enigma was the third bullet? Where did it go?
Is it in Ferdinand? Has he been shot and does not know it yet?
chronic
old and in the way
Had you read the sequel you would know that it passed through President Kennedy's neck, Governor Connally's chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor's thigh.
Err, uh, nevermind... different bullet.
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jordan
lothario speedwagon
**another spoiler alert!**
keep in mind that the actual translation of the last sentence is [roughly] "and we shall speak no more of it" and not the more dramatic "and that will be the end of us."
that translation has always bugged me, because the original french ties the beginning to the end really well... first, "me, i'd never said a thing" and finally, "and we'll speak no more of it." as if everything that can be said has been said. that's how i read the end, at least.