Beatles or Stones (or Kinks? Monkees? Herman's Hermits?) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Billville
- Start date
Digney in Burnaby
donkeys live a long time
Yeah, Mark Lindsay recorded . He co-wrote a few of the Raiders' hits with producer Terry Melcher. But Kicks and Hungry were written by the Brill Building team of Barry Mann and Cynthia Weil.
The only time any of our dogs gave a shit about what I was playing was when Snowball barked consistently at the garbled spoken bit in AC's old. Wish I could find the studio version online. But she pricked her ears up and didn't like it, didn't like it one bit. Other than that, she couldn't of cared less what I played.
Lyrics are (are not) poetry argument seems to go back a few years. I've got the Richard Goldstein paperback The Poetry of Rock with a bunch of lyrics from the late 60s. And this essay, Rock Lyrics are Poetry (Maybe), by Robert Christgau is interesting. Apparently first printed in the old rock magazine Cheetah. I understand that the first issue had Mama Cass posed nude inside. Now is that rock and roll? Or poetry?
Let's see if I can do this right: a wop bop a loo bop a lop bam boom. (Close enough for rock and roll.)
chronic
old and in the way
Robert Plant is a terrible lyricist.
In general I agree that lyrics aren't poems, and I don't think that they are supposed to be in most cases, but every now and then you can hear a poetic verse or maybe just a line in a song. I always liked this from Whiter Shade of Pale:
the room was humming harder
as the ceiling flew away
and this from South Texas Girl by Lyle Lovett:
the wind blew the echo of long faded voices
and they'd sing me the songs that the old cowboys sang
I didn't know what the words meant or anything
I was just singing because I was supposed to
There are many many other songs like this. These just came to mind.
In general I agree that lyrics aren't poems, and I don't think that they are supposed to be in most cases, but every now and then you can hear a poetic verse or maybe just a line in a song. I always liked this from Whiter Shade of Pale:
the room was humming harder
as the ceiling flew away
and this from South Texas Girl by Lyle Lovett:
the wind blew the echo of long faded voices
and they'd sing me the songs that the old cowboys sang
I didn't know what the words meant or anything
I was just singing because I was supposed to
There are many many other songs like this. These just came to mind.
A tadpole in a jar-Robert Plant
You know, it's well & good that you speak for Snowball the dog but do you really know if he's punk or not? My dog, Ignastius, had a dog to dog conversation with him the other day and he's quite uncomfortable about you talking about him & for him on a public forum. And furthermore not only does he consider himself punk but hardcore punk and he doesn't like that new dog food you bought at all. So in conclusion I do not think we have the right to put labels on our dogs, maybe on their dogfood, but we shoudl allow them to choose what style of music they feel they need to be aligned with. Not that their's anything wrong with not choosing if they're so inclined. But, of course, most of them pick Brit-Pop or Paul Revere & the Raiders (Buk's cats favorite) but who doesn't know that?
Kinks rule.
You know, it's well & good that you speak for Snowball the dog but do you really know if he's punk or not? My dog, Ignastius, had a dog to dog conversation with him the other day and he's quite uncomfortable about you talking about him & for him on a public forum. And furthermore not only does he consider himself punk but hardcore punk and he doesn't like that new dog food you bought at all. So in conclusion I do not think we have the right to put labels on our dogs, maybe on their dogfood, but we shoudl allow them to choose what style of music they feel they need to be aligned with. Not that their's anything wrong with not choosing if they're so inclined. But, of course, most of them pick Brit-Pop or Paul Revere & the Raiders (Buk's cats favorite) but who doesn't know that?
Kinks rule.
I think if you really like a particular artist, and really feel that their songs or perhaps a particular song they've written moves you, affects you, then you're more inclined to feel that it has some profound quality, making it more poetic than say, 'she loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah'. I'm sure I could start dragging out songs I like and trying to convince you of their poetic qualities, but I'm sure I would be wrong.
mjp
Founding member
Take off your rainbow shades! I never put that together with Paul Revere and the Raiders. Dr. Lindsay seems to have made a turn toward MORville there, when he was no longer a Raider.
Neither.
It's punk, of course!
Digney in Burnaby
donkeys live a long time
No doubt I don't read poasts closely either but I did manage to get Snowball as a "her" not a "him". She's been dead for 25 years so I suppose your pup Ignastius channeled her. Either that or Iggy is dead as well. Then, I'm sorry for your loss.
And Snowball was reacting to the AC spoken portion of "Lay Down and Die Goodbye" that said "if you don't like what we play you have a choice/you can turn it off." Distinctly was being told by her to shut it down.
The only other times she'd get really vocal was feeding time. Joyous times. I used to call it "whining and dining" time. She was a nice old goofy Samoyed.
Prescription shades. Too expensive to trash. No doubt (he said, repeating himself) ML and PR had "artistic differences", or ML had a greedy, grasping manager (any other kind?). Of course the band got back together and had another big hit with John D. Loudermilk's . Don't need rainbow shades for this one.
Maybe Mama Cass Elliot was the first punk. Maybe Bukowski should of been in the Mamas and the Papas. I can hear him now singing "". Was CB really Denny Doherty?
All the leaves are brown.
And the sky is gray.
And the sky is gray.
Back on topic: Beatles.
As the Rolling Stones may have gathered some moss...
As the Rolling Stones may have gathered some moss...
I should be sleeping. Instead, I'm reading this thread. You people interest me, and I ain't no scientist.
hank solo- I agree here in full measure. IT CAN BE-everything
the bottom line but...
oh well...
we all have to talk...
I love so many kinds of music, from so many times and places-
Bukowski helped me to know how important that is.
There are many things that I don't understand, but
I understand what the ART that I love does to me,
and I welcome that.
It is the only thing
that gets me through.
Whatever it is to YOU-
out there,
don't you just love it?
CRB:)
You know, as a youngster, about 17 years old, I hated Led Zeppelin. My wife loves the first four albums, and after about 25-odd years, I gave a listen. Despite the itinerant plagarism, Stairway actually has some good lyrics. It's pagan worship, for all you succubi out there. Gonna listen to it loud, and paganise my wife. :D
I'll post details tomorrow, you know, if y'all give a flying @#$%:eek:
I'll post details tomorrow, you know, if y'all give a flying @#$%:eek:
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
I'm changing my signature.
Cindi, you don't have to capitalize pagan.
Always interested to hear your thoughts...
When I was younger (pre-to-teens), I was more into rock than the Beatles. (I really dug the Doors, surprise.) I was under the misconception that they were bubble gum. But like wine, started tasting them a smidge later in life, and it worked. On multiple levels. (Perhaps I was just too young to get it in '67.)
At one point, I decided to do a bit of research. And found out more about Lennon. The bubble gum was mass audience bullshit, and JL grew weary of it. He didn't want to be a jingle writer. He wanted to explore the meaning of life, and try to change things. His pulpit, his stage, his mass appeal afforded him that ability. And yes, he took advantage of it.
I think very few bands have ever tried to really change things. For the greater good of mankind. Marley is the only other one that comes to mind. Think about other great bands with a mass following, almost religious, like the Dead. Did the Dead want to change the world, or just paint beautiful music for us to witness? Sure, some of their songs were political, and metaphysical, but the Dead were about something else. And, it worked, too. Cosmic. But different than John Lennon.
Hey, we're all afforded POVs.
That's mine.
Pax
I think that the Dead did set out to change the world, much as Grace Slick and Paul Kantner tried to do so by attempting to drop acid in Richard Nixon's water glass (sic). As such, it didn't work out so well.
I've seen the Dead 20 times, and when they hit it, they were better than a 100-year old Bordeaux, unaki roll and sodomy with H*lle B*rry (simultaneously). When they didn't, giving a sponge-bath to Charles Manson would seem like a holiday.
But it's all relative: I can tell you that many people hate the Dead; mainly because they don't get it, and they adhere to the mainstream stuff. But some really don't like it because they aren't into that shit. Me, I could listen to Phil Lesh's bass parts all alone for hours and hours...I really haven't addressed the topic, have I?
I've seen the Dead 20 times, and when they hit it, they were better than a 100-year old Bordeaux, unaki roll and sodomy with H*lle B*rry (simultaneously). When they didn't, giving a sponge-bath to Charles Manson would seem like a holiday.
But it's all relative: I can tell you that many people hate the Dead; mainly because they don't get it, and they adhere to the mainstream stuff. But some really don't like it because they aren't into that shit. Me, I could listen to Phil Lesh's bass parts all alone for hours and hours...I really haven't addressed the topic, have I?
Man, that's one helluva first line. How can one compete with that?
But regardless of how many times you have experienced the Dead, you witnessed them for many (and the same) reasons. The Dead are so unique in their offering. You know. And there is no way to explain.
You can't explain the beauty of a rose to someone who can't see it.
Pax
But regardless of how many times you have experienced the Dead, you witnessed them for many (and the same) reasons. The Dead are so unique in their offering. You know. And there is no way to explain.
You can't explain the beauty of a rose to someone who can't see it.
Pax
And Owsley Stanley tried to change the world with money and a bunch of rag-a-muffins who ended up being the highest-grossing concert band for years.
Sometimes it works for all the reasons you never saw.
(Once in while you get shown the light for the strangest of reasons when you look at it right.)
Sometimes it works for all the reasons you never saw.
(Once in while you get shown the light for the strangest of reasons when you look at it right.)
^Unfamiliar with the group. But I was familiar with Owlsey, for reasons I will no longer dicuss...;)
mjp
Founding member
Testify!
But can someone explain the beauty of standing on stage and tuning up for 20 or 30 minutes (absolutely no exaggeration) in the middle of your "set" while the audience continues to dance around in fairy circles and shake tambourines? As if they were hearing their favorite song?
That's the only part of the Grateful Dead that I didn't see the beauty of the time I crashed one of their shows in St. Paul.
I understand hippies and drugs and concerts and things. I just didn't understand that particular experience.
Depends on the current mood. Right now Eleanor Rigby beats anything the Stones brought out
p.s. does longevity count? If so, I find it ironic to say the Beatles because they brought out more good stuff in 7 years than the Stones did in their first 15 years (most of the Stones stuff was crap from about 1978 onwards and should be largely unlistened to)
p.s. does longevity count? If so, I find it ironic to say the Beatles because they brought out more good stuff in 7 years than the Stones did in their first 15 years (most of the Stones stuff was crap from about 1978 onwards and should be largely unlistened to)
^This Kinks song sounds more like T-Rex
Owsley bought all the equipment for the Dead and paid their rent on Haight Street. In turn, their job was to play whenever Owsley set something up.
As for the "long tuning" thing, 20-30 minutes seems a bit of an exaggeration, despite your claims to the contrary, mjp, but I'll take you on your word. That is inexcuseable for any band. So yeah, they had their bad moments, but when they hit it, your feet just couldn't touch the floor.
Was that from the Owsley or the music? :eek:
(BTW: cool backstory. And do you know about the Owsley urban myth? Or is it plain fact?)
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
I thought Owsley was a brand of LSD. Or the name of the guy making it. Like Black Owsley.
:eek::rolleyes:;)
Hence, my Q...
Hence, my Q...
mjp
Founding member
Well, here's what I base my estimate on (admittedly it is a guess, as I did not have a stopwatch with me, or even a regular watch or pocketwatch - though I like pocketwatches, and I have one now, but I don't think I did at the time): We finagled into a side door of the St. Paul Civic Center Arena, one that we knew had weaknesses that we had exploited on several previous occasions. Being a hockey arena, it was not a small venue. It seated 25,000 or so for music at the time, I believe. When we came in they were tuning up. Which was, in my experience, odd to see or hear on a stage in an arena. So I made a metal note; "Hey, are they actually tuning up in front of their audience?!"
We walked the circumference of the arena on the second level, then went down to the floor level and did the same thing. Then we went out to the concession area, where there were large circles of seated hippies rubbing each other's backs. I found this odd as well, but to each his own, right? We then headed out onto the arena floor, where hippies were leaping about rattling tambourines, and the band was still tuning up. Seriously.
We walked across the floor, stopping to admire the little roped off section in the middle, where hippies had expensive microphones taped to long sticks, which they were using - apparently - to record the band tuning up. The hippies in that area looked very serious. There was no tambourine rattling or back rubbing going on there.
Then we walked up the ramp to get out of there, and still, no song. So we broke in, walked all the way around the arena twice, wandered around the concession area and arena floor, and made our way to the exit, all without hearing a song. That had to take at least 20 minutes, wouldn't you think? And remember, we don't know how long they were tuning before we got in, or after we left. It could have gone on for hours for all we know. I don't think most of the audience would have known the difference.
I don't tell the story (and I tell it often) to denigrate the Grateful Dead, I tell it because, to me, it is a remarkable, almost unbelievable story. A truly singular experience, out of hundreds of rawk show experiences.
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Grateful Dead fans strike me as the type that want all of the band than can get, even the prolonged tune up. The band itself has always struck me as a little too stoned anyway so taking forever to tune is not a surprise at all.
You know, thinking back, on LSD a tune up would be quite a trip.
mjp
Founding member
I suppose it could be, but you'd have to be on LSD as well to really appreciate it, in which case the "concert" really becomes irrelevant. You could be sitting in a cement quarry.
I just wonder what the difference is between a novice (or punk) musician who "can't tune his guitar" and an accomplished, celebrated musician - or group of musicians - who are too drug addled to tune their instruments? I think one is no better than the other.
And as I though more about tuning on stage the other night I remembered the many times I stood and watched Johnny Thunders tune his guitar. Though that was likely due to his playing old Les Paul Juniors, which tend to rebel against any kind of precise tuning. That was in clubs though. I have to say that in an arena show I never saw a guitarist tune up.
Though I did see Led Zeppelin play an encore of Black Dog once that I wish Jimmy Page would have stopped in order to tune up. But that's a different story. He seemed very well inebriated (it could have had something to do with emptying two-thirds of a large bottle of vodka that sat on top of one of his amps throughout the show), so he may not have been able to tune up even if they did stop...
I just wonder what the difference is between a novice (or punk) musician who "can't tune his guitar" and an accomplished, celebrated musician - or group of musicians - who are too drug addled to tune their instruments? I think one is no better than the other.
And as I though more about tuning on stage the other night I remembered the many times I stood and watched Johnny Thunders tune his guitar. Though that was likely due to his playing old Les Paul Juniors, which tend to rebel against any kind of precise tuning. That was in clubs though. I have to say that in an arena show I never saw a guitarist tune up.
Though I did see Led Zeppelin play an encore of Black Dog once that I wish Jimmy Page would have stopped in order to tune up. But that's a different story. He seemed very well inebriated (it could have had something to do with emptying two-thirds of a large bottle of vodka that sat on top of one of his amps throughout the show), so he may not have been able to tune up even if they did stop...
Hmmm, your trip around the arena would take at least 20 minutes, yes. I wonder if they had an equipment problem that they announced before you got inside. Jerry would probably be the most likely candidate for noodling around and constantly tuning during a break like that. It's just hard for me to believe that they were just tuning for over 20 miutes. I mean, I can do it in about 30 seconds.
What year was this? Late 70s/early 80s?
I also am a fan of pocket watches.
What year was this? Late 70s/early 80s?
I also am a fan of pocket watches.
mjp
Founding member
I thought it was 1980, but now I may have to revise that back to 1978 - deadlists.com says it could have been 78 or 81, but 81 seems too late. I don't think I would have been crashing a Dead show that year, so I'm going with 1978.
I know it's an unbelievable story, and if I didn't know what tuning up sounded like, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were just fucking around. But they weren't. Pretty weird. Like you said though, could have been an equipment issue or something, I have no idea what happened before I got in there.
But the band stayed on stage, and I don't know if they would have stayed out there if they knew they were up against a technical issue that might last a while...who knows.
Some Deadhead somewhere knows! He's probably got tape of the whole thing. ;)
I know it's an unbelievable story, and if I didn't know what tuning up sounded like, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and say they were just fucking around. But they weren't. Pretty weird. Like you said though, could have been an equipment issue or something, I have no idea what happened before I got in there.
But the band stayed on stage, and I don't know if they would have stayed out there if they knew they were up against a technical issue that might last a while...who knows.
Some Deadhead somewhere knows! He's probably got tape of the whole thing. ;)
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Yeah, I heard the tape and you can distinctly hear some punks tromping around the arena in the middle of a crucial tune up. Jerry Garcia can be heard muttering, "those fuckin' punks need to stop pounding around and sit the fuck down."
Gerard K H Love
Appreciate your friends
Yesterday I reminded myself why I quit listening to John Lennon for a long time. I found an Mp3 that has everything by Lennon. The beginning is a live concert with the band tuning up on stage and Lennon says,"this the first time we have played together so we're going to do a couple of songs we all know." Yes the first couple of songs are good old rock and roll, but then this shit starts happening. Yoko Ono is scarred for life, like my poor ears.
I think this is how you say to the world.
I think this is how you say to the world.
chronic
old and in the way
That would be the Live Peace in Toronto album. I remember buying a copy of this new which included a John and Yoko calendar (1969 I think) that's probably worth a fortune today.
"Yoko is a concept by which we measure our pain."
