Bukowski versus Wantling (1 Viewer)

[joseph ridgwell]

Ok, I have two takes on this fascinating relationship.
One: Buk, acted as mentor to Wantling, and dug his early stuff and championed his work, and then as his fame grew and Wantling's career fizzled out, he considered Wantling's move into academia a creative cul-de-sac, and death for the writer, and lost respect for him as a writer.

Or two: Bukowski was always slightly threatened with the younger poets more realistic tough guy credentials, (fought in the Korean war, did time in San Quentin, drug busts etc,) and so in the end felt the need to insult the man, and unforgiveably, his wife, just after he, Wantling died.

For those of you who may not have heard of WilliamWantling, he was a minor poet in the 1960's, who corrosponded with Bukowski, and whose reputation has recently undergone a small revival in the UK. Tangerine Press published two books of Wantling material, hardcover, handbound, beautiful books, similar to BOSP.
http://www.eatmytangerine.com/

 

[Hosh]

Wasn't there a rift stemming from a project to publish Buk's letters? Buk needed dough, but Wantling wouldn't share his letters? Or am I imagining that...

 

[joseph ridgwell]

Dunno, I didn't hear about that. Can you get clarification? All I know is that Wantling invited Buk to read at his university campus, and Buk did a poor reading and was particularly rude and cantankerous the whole weekend. Wantling later said to his wife that he wished he'd never asked him to read, and shortly afterwards drunk himself to death.

 

[the only good poet]

The rift over letters was with John William Corrington.

 

[mjp]

Bukowski was always slightly threatened [...] and so in the end felt the need to insult the man...

Bukowski insulted and alienated virtually every one of his friends and acquaintances. I would hazard a guess that it had nothing to do with feeling threatened, as he really didn't consider any of his contemporaries to be a better poet than he was.

Even if he did feel threatened by or jealous of Wantling, that would not have been a prerequisite for sabotaging their relationship. Such as it was. He sabotaged every relationship he ever had.

 

[joseph ridgwell]

And yet Bukowski made certain not to insult everyone he knew. John Martin being a stand out example. Maybe he knew what side his bread was buttered on...And nearly every single small press publisher and editor before he got famous. He knew how to play the game and rightly so. Now the true rebel would virtually, or if a true renegade, actually insult everyone they knew all the time. But then the true rebel also has to be a true artist, i.e, they must back up their insults with their work. As for me I can insult who the fuck I like. I've paid my dues and then some.

 

[hoochmonkey9]

ain't you lucky

 

[joseph ridgwell]

Hooch, for once in your life, don't be a dripping tap. I'm on your side, fighting your fight, obviously with more verve and panache, but still on your side. Don't ever forget that. Also, when it comes to Bukowski, Fante, the Beats, Hamsun, or anything to do with literature, I can destroy your life in less than twenty words...

 

[hoochmonkey9]

duly noted, you pretentious twat.

 

[joseph ridgwell]

hey, hey, that's what I like Hooch, a bit of fire in the belly... don't ever lose that...

 

[the only good poet]

I've paid my dues and then some.

Verily a living soul who hasn't.

 

[joseph ridgwell]

we've all paid our dues OGP, in one way or the other. You know I'm tired, I'm getting old, running out of gas. The only thing left is to write or die, or go surfing or drink beer. I can't surf so I prefer to drink beer...

 

[cirerita]

B. did attack all the sacred cows, including Martin, Webb, Malone and Packard -not as viciously as he attacked his "friends," but he criticized them nonetheless.
The only one who was spared was Weissner. Maybe it was the German blood...

 

[mjp]

As for me I can insult who the fuck I like.

Not here you can't. Bye.

 

[Hosh]

The rift over letters was with John William Corrington.

Ah...right story, wrong dude. Thanks for the info.

 

[Hosh]

Yowza...check out for a day's work and I miss the all the hullabaloo...

 

[mjp]

Hosh, I think your friend was trying to tell us something.

 

[Hosh]

Well, I know he doesn't mind a good dust-up...not unlike you and the other mods--all of whom I respect and am glad for. I enjoy that these boards are vigorously defended. It's obvious things got off on the wrong foot...and he's certainly not blameless for that. He's a fine writer, and I still think many people here will enjoy his work. And Bukowski.net is--as you all know--not only the best place for Bukowski info, but a hub of all-around worldwide cultural and artistic talent and life. When I want to find great music, movie, small press books, new writers, classics I missed, anything--these boards are the first place I look.

I honestly thought everyone would hit it off like gangbusters. That didn't happen. Doesn't change how I feel about everyone here, nor how I feel about Joe. So we're not always gonna group hug and sing Kumbaya...fair enough. I wish it had worked out differently...but wish in one hand and shit in the other, as they say...

 

[mjp]

Bluster is all well and good, but all bluster and nothing else is just a bit too much (bluster only works as humor if people already know you and know the braggadocio is meant as humor). You can certainly walk in to a party and start waving your dick around if that's how you want to roll, but you should expect a certain outcome.

 

[Hosh]

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Stavrogin]

This thread went south when the direction was meant elsewhere. Damn that British humor. A certain outcome is always predicated here. I've been a guest on many a forum and the most difficult members on any forum board are American. I'm not sure why that is but it is true. And I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread. Hooch pinged to Ridgwell's pong and it was all in good fun. I know this site is your baby, mjp, but let it gain legs. I sometimes wonder why this place even bothers with Mods. I love this site like no other but there are times it irritates the shit out of me. Perhaps I'm too sensitive. I don't know what it is.

 

[roni]

[...] and it was all in good fun. [...]

but you can't deny, that this guy was annoying.

 

[mjp]

A certain outcome is always predicated here.

Yes, I can always predict that you will point out what an oppressive atmosphere it is around here any time some is told to piss off.

Thanks, your predictability is comforting.

 

[Stavrogin]

We should play online poker, you and I, to see who profits most from predictability. I do respect you for not going back and correcting your grammatical errors when you obviously have a pass to.