Howdy fellow Bukowski fans (2 Viewers)

Thought I would say a quick hello. I'm embarrassingly old to be discovering Bukowski (50 -- fuck!) but better late than never. But hopefully not too late. Because there is nothing worse than too late. Amen, Hank.

It probably speaks volumes that I'm joining this forum on a long weekend of Labor Day nothingness. A bleak summer following a so-so spring and all of a sudden Bukowski makes a lot of sense.

I have to admit I'm one of the lazy ones. I stumbled onto something on youtube and then checked out the DVD Born Into This. Seeing that sequence from Dinosauria, we just blew me away. The whole thing actually, not just the words. The filming of it was so brilliant. I think Buk would have appreciated it. It's a perfect video adaptation of poetry.

I just finished Ham on Rye. He give a voice to all those painful moments we've ever had. Reading all that stuff from his childhood uncovered some long forgotten memories from my own childhood. Nothing as bad as what he went through, but the emotions are similar.

Am I any better off for having read Bukowski? Maybe not. It's easy to wallow in the misery. But acknowledging human pain may also be the first step to getting past it all.

I hope so.

Thanks for this forum.
 
welcome, Hirst.

I always felt Buk hit his prime at 50, so you finding him at that age is appropriate,

enjoy.
 
Thanks, guys. I'd catch little bits of him here and there over the years but never really got him before. Not sure why. I have to give credit to film. Really opened my eyes. Is Bukowski your favourite writer? Just curious.
 
To each their own, I suppose. More than any other art form, I consider the written word to be sacrosanct in its pure form. I don't care for the poetry readings or movie adaptations (or even the movie Barfly all that much). To me, the word alone should be enough to convey the reader to a place. Whether that place is exactly what the writer intended is either a calculated vagueness on the part of the writer who simply wants to elicit some effect, or a strict accuracy that brings everyone to a similar place, is immaterial.

Let the words sit there and produce something. That's good writing to me. Loose yet tight, if you follow.

While I've gone through various phases of the who, what and where of what I like to read and what mood I'm in, Buk is the only writer who consistently cuts through the bullshit and is always relevant in some way to me. How could he not be my favorite writer?
 
Howdy, Hirst! I first discovered Buk at age 33(I'm 40 now). And I thought THAT was too late. But better that than the alternative, yes?

Welcome to the place.
 
Welcome aboard, Hirst! Yes, the BIT docu is great (minus the Bono parts). I'm glad you liked it and it turned you on to Buk.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@Bukfan -- Thanks, yeah have to agree that Bono is a problem in that movie. I give the guy credit for liking Bukowski and being public about it. He didn't have to. But I can't take him anymore. I try to imagine Roll the Dice being read by somebody I actually I liked.

@zenguru -- Definitely. The great thing about art is that there is no such thing as too late. Like the cliche says, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. We're all on our own timetables in life.

@Purple Stickpin -- I admire your dedication to the printed word. Loose yet tight -- yeah, I think I know what you mean. If just words can induce a reaction in the reader, then you know it must be good. It's easier to elicit emotions with pictures I think. With the push towards video these days, I how the younger generation will appreciate the printed word alone in the future. People still need to read stories and I don't think that's going to change anytime soon.
 
I like your avatar, Hirst. Is that Buk's typewriter? Or a facsimile thereof?
Either way, it's cool. And perfect for this forum.
 
Thanks. Not Buk's typer as far as I know. It's a Remington and I don't think he used those much. According to the Timeline, he was mostly a Royal and Underwood man.

I'm a fan of typewriters. I have an old portable Empire Aristocrat from England circa 1950. It has the tiniest font.

Like this one

http://designc20.com/empire-aristocrat.html

I also have a Royal from the 1940s. They are great to write poetry on. Less words so you don't have hack through the keys so much, but there's a nice earthy feel to it. If vinyl records can come back, maybe typewriters can too.
 
I've never written poetry on the typewriter. I've always done it by hand. I write in a journal either at home or in a cafe. Then I transcribe to looseleaf and put it in a binder. But if I find an old typewriter at a flea market or tag sale somewhere, I may think about picking it up.
 
there's a nice earthy feel to it.
There's a nice, earthy feel to building a house with an axe, a pile of logs and a hand saw too, but there's a reason why we don't do it that way anymore.

The nostalgia factor surrounding a manual typewriter wears off pretty quickly when you try to do actual work with them. I know of a few otherwise seemingly sane poets who still use them, but the appeal escapes me. They're cool to have around I suppose, like a human ear in a jar of formaldehyde, an AMC Pacer or one of those big front wheel bikes from the 1800s.
 
To each his own. FWIW, I think there is a resurgence in hand-crafted woodworking, everything from boats to cabins or even houses. Sure, its nostalgia and inefficient but there are some intangible gains there, too. It's more about the mood it creates than anything else. I like the sound of it. And I wouldn't use it to type more than 100 words in any event.

I also will often use a fountain pen for the same reason. Maybe a little pretentious but there's a connection with past writers that ballpoint pens (or Macbooks) can't convey.
 
Sure, but I think there's a difference between making something with your hands and using a typewriter for communication though.

If I build you a chair by hand, it's likely to be a better, more interesting and long-lasting chair than you can buy at IKEA. But if I type you a letter on a typewriter it's going to be ugly and distracting when you try to read past all my ######## mistakes. I don't know if it's pretentious - I didn't say it was - it's a question of the right tool for the right job.

I build things with my hands, and I live in a house surrounded by old shit, but I don't watch TV on a 50 year old Zenith. Like I said, a typewriter on the desk, sitting there looking all machine-y is cool. Dust it off once in a while and pose for photos in front of it. It's just a shitty tool. It always has been, but for a long time it was all we had.
 
Sure, but I think there's a difference between making something with your hands and using a typewriter for communication though.

I build things with my hands, and I live in a house surrounded by old shit, but I don't watch TV on a 50 year old Zenith.
It may well be inefficient and shitty, but I still like it. And there you have it. One man's shitty tool is another man's respite from normal. Efficiency comes with trade offs. Once and a while, I like to pound away on my aristocrat. Feels good, sounds good, too. And I like the sound the my nib scratching across the paper, too. A ballpoint is smoother and cheaper, but it's not very interesting. On the level of experience, it leaves something to be desired.

One possible difference between the old Zenith and a flat screen is that there is no act of creation involved in watching television. Writing is different. There may be a greater role for intangibles. Why do some people like old cars? Are cars just tools? No way -- they are a form of personal expression.

Postcards are coming back after virtually disappearing for ten years. Why? The personal touch of an actual handwritten message.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't write people letters on my typewriter. It's just a nice change of pace. Good for the occasional reflective moment when I might write some words with a different intent in mind other than rational communication.

What kind of guitar is that in your avatar? Gibson?

I like your sense of nostalgia, Hirst. Good for you.

Thanks, zenguru. Everybody has a different place for history in their lives. I only recently got into fountain pens. I was stunned there is a massive forum for them with some very hard core types who argue about inks, nibs, and all manner of minutiae. And they thing nothing of spending hundreds of dollars on their pens. Maybe more of a European thing.

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/

I just bought a five dollar one from Staples that writes well and I'm happy with that. I have a Moleskine notebook, too. There's another bit of retro chic that has come back as the backlash against the computer continues. I'm not sure I'll cough up another $25 for a second one, but it's been a nice notebook anyway. The dollar store has similar black cover notebooks for a buck so I may go with one of those my next time out.
 
What kind of guitar is that in your avatar? Gibson?
It is an old, inefficient Les Paul Junior. An incredible tool. Though the electric guitar has not changed since it was invented, so there's really nothing more space-age to use.
 
Nice guitar. I used to have a Gibson SG Junior. A less than perfect tool because it didn't stay in tune as well as it should have but there is such as thing as the creative experience. Poetry published on paper isn't different from poetry published online, is it? Or is it?
 
Welcome Hirst. I also like the sound of a pen scratching a sheet of paper, and the sound of a brush on a textured canvas.
 
Welcome Hirst. It's nice to see you are stirring up some positive conversations in here. I too never looked into Bukowski until I was 53 years old(October of 2006) and by seeing Born Into This. My daughter put that in our NetFlix when she turned 18. I did mean to see Barfly ever since hearing Roger Ebert praise Bukowski in 1987 or 1988.
 
Thanks PS. So it seems that some people (like mjp himself) insist on paper. Very understandable since that contributes to the subjective experience of reading outside of the actual words being communicated. (Also paper publishers also act as gatekeepers in a way that online blogs do not.) That was my original point -- there can be some element of subjectivity and aesthetics the production and appreciation of art. Well, actually most things come to think it -- what cars we drive, what computers we use, etc. Some people like mjp may not have an interest in inefficient tools and that's cool. While I'm typing this message on a Thinkpad, I do like to regress occasionally and pound away on a typewriter just to change things up a bit. Just my preference.

The tuners were very cheap on the Juniors and Specials in the 50s, but I've had a few that would stay in tune (and some that wouldn't).
Maybe that's why it was easier to part with it. I just have an acoustic guitar now.

What kind of music do you play? If you say "blues", I will have no choice but to like you.

Thanks for the welcome, Black Swan and Gerard. BS, who painted you avatar? It's pretty neat.

Gerard, good to see there are other latecomers to the Buk party. So you saw BIT with your daughter? Some interesting conversations there I'm sure.
 
So it seems that some people (like mjp himself) insist on paper.
For the purposes of posting in the "support the small press" forum I insist on paper if you are going to call yourself a "press," yes. A web site does not a press make.

What kind of music do you play? If you say "blues", I will have no choice but to like you.
It's all blues under the surface, isn't it?
 
Thanks, zenguru. Everybody has a different place for history in their lives. I only recently got into fountain pens. I was stunned there is a massive forum for them with some very hard core types who argue about inks, nibs, and all manner of minutiae. And they thing nothing of spending hundreds of dollars on their pens. Maybe more of a European thing.

http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/

I just bought a five dollar one from Staples that writes well and I'm happy with that. I have a Moleskine notebook, too. There's another bit of retro chic that has come back as the backlash against the computer continues. I'm not sure I'll cough up another $25 for a second one, but it's been a nice notebook anyway. The dollar store has similar black cover notebooks for a buck so I may go with one of those my next time out.
Wow, that's amazing. But I shouldn't be surprised at the kinds of forums that are out there. I post on a Bukowski forum. And I post on a couple comic book forums. I've been a hardcore collector of comics for the past twenty-odd years, but poetry has been overtaking them by leaps and bounds.

I may look into using a fountain pen for my journal. See how it feels. It doesn't feel quite right to use any ordinary ballpoint. So maybe this will be a good fit for me. Your moleskin cost $25? Mine cost under $18. I guess it depends on where you are. My first moleskin took about three & a half years to fill. My current one will be full in about 6 months and will hold about 2 & a half year's worth of material. I write really small. Not too much bigger than the font you're reading now. I'm getting more prolific as I go on. I'll keep getting moleskins as I need them. I love the look and the keepsake pocket in the back.

Now I wonder if there's a forum for moleskins....
 
Wow, that's amazing. But I shouldn't be surprised at the kinds of forums that are out there. I post on a Bukowski forum. And I post on a couple comic book forums. I've been a hardcore collector of comics for the past twenty-odd years, but poetry has been overtaking them by leaps and bounds.

I may look into using a fountain pen for my journal. See how it feels. It doesn't feel quite right to use any ordinary ballpoint. So maybe this will be a good fit for me. Your moleskin cost $25? Mine cost under $18. I guess it depends on where you are. My first moleskin took about three & a half years to fill. My current one will be full in about 6 months and will hold about 2 & a half year's worth of material. I write really small. Not too much bigger than the font you're reading now. I'm getting more prolific as I go on. I'll keep getting moleskins as I need them. I love the look and the keepsake pocket in the back.

Now I wonder if there's a forum for moleskins....

Good to hear that poetry may be beating comics.

I'm in Canada, so like most things, Moleskines cost a bit more up here. Must be the anti-freeze surcharge. I had heard that their quality had declined after they came back on the scene, but that was before my time. The back pocket is useful but remember you can fashion one yourself. Very easy. I've hacked my Moleskine by adding a pen holder on the spine using duct tape. Ugly but useful. Handy for me since I don't like the fact that the pen can't normally be attached to the notebook. I like the yellow-cream tint to the paper but it's a little thin and I've found there is some bleed through when using some fountain pens. The cheapo imitation I got from the dollar store actually has no ink bleed through so that's a good thing.

Thanks for the Habana idea mjp. I will check those out.
 
I like the yellow-cream tint to the paper but it's a little thin and I've found there is some bleed through when using some fountain pens.

You could probably start a thread about that on the fountain pen forum.

Actually, there are likely already four or five of them and the hard-core forum vets will bitch about newbies not using the search feature... :rolleyes:
 
All my serious music work is done on a computer, but most projects start as sketches in Archive 18-stave orchestra score books. The tactile sensation of a #2 pencil on the slightly rough, light brow paper seems to encourage the imagination more than a CPU screen.
 
It's always interesting to see how people work. Probably related to what you first learned to compose with. I used to write long hand then type it out in the 80s for university essays, etc. Then the computer came along and changed all that.

Given your heavy use of electronics and computers in terms of actual production of sounds, it's amazing that you still use a pencil for anything.
 
(A late) welcome to the forum. I was missing in action most of September and am catching up with a lot of posts. Definitely agree that that opening sequence of BIT is a stunner.
 
ah fuck, i've come way too late to the party. this always happens to be, probably because i despise parties. but it's what i get for having my eyeballs, brain and person buried in work these last several months. i'm on a break for now and peeking back into the forums.

so a late howdydooty welcome to you hirst! i like the cut of your jib so far: cool name, cool avatar, musician, knowledge about hank, late bloomer, it's all interesting shit to me. i too am, well was, a musician for many years. 99% of it as a drummer, but i play some guitar to write on. i have access to mjp's les paul jr, and i have a strat, but i always reach (if i even bother) for my old beat-up yamaha classical.

i've been into bukowski since i was 13 or so. discovered him in the public library and considered him my dad replacement. i'm 42 now. he is my favorite writer, but fante is a very close 2nd.

i used to pound on an old royal myself - i have no idea how my father dragged it along all of his years into the family, but it was from the mid 40s and it weighed more than a car. by the time i was 15, he let me use the ibm we had in the office and i switched between the 2 until i got a fancy brother word processor when i was 19! that was just before i got windows 3.1! hahaha, oh the memories. now i'm rambling...

so off i go. welcome hirst!
 
Thanks to number6horse and esart. I appreciate the welcome. @6: always liked your avatar pic of Buk. Where is Dreamland, anyhow?

Late bloomer? Yeah, I have that reputation to some of the members of my family. But my reply is: I'm not a late bloomer, I've bloomed already but it's hard to see. Small bloomer maybe. Uncanny about your guitar selection esart. My Yamaha classical was the last guitar standing for me after going through a series of No name Strat imitations and the much hallowed Gibson SG Jr. But jeez -- you're in LA. That's the most amazing thing to me. People actually live there. Aren't you all on the Universal payroll or something. Extras start at $80 a day. :-)

I guess you've made pilgrimages to various Buk sites. It's on the my to-do list eventually. I guess with Google street view it's a little less of a lure.
 
Dreamland = Chicago IL.

On the subject of guitars, my current roommates in Chicago are a Takamine acoustic/electric, an Alvarez acoustic, and a Fender Telecaster (hecho en Mexico).

I keep the Alvarez in weird Joni Mitchell-style open-tunings as a sign of respect to Our Great Neighbor To The North. ( you're welcome, Canada )
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top