I need help (1 Viewer)

[BrunoAndernacht]

Hello.

I registered in these forums a long time ago, but I haven't posted much, so I guess I have to reintroduce myself.

My name's Bruno, I'm from Barcelona and I read Ham on Rye when I was 7 or 8. I understood most of it and I loved it. I was really interested in Bukowski throughout my life and when I was 13 I decided to buy all his novels and other books containing short stories, but I never approached his poetry, which I have discovered is great.

Now I'm seventeen and I've chosen Bukowski as the subject for a Research Work we students have to do in Catalonia (Spain). I'm sure all of you know more than I do about Buk's poetry, and I'm also sure you can help me. I'm writing commentaries for Buk's poems and then I'll compare them to particular chapters of his novels and compare them. My hypothesis is that Bukowski's inner feelings are hidden in his novels whereas his poetry shows them a lot more.

Could you tell me some good poems of his? I need your help, fellow Bukowski fans.

 

[roni]

I'm assuming, your teachers don't want a 700-page-script, right? So you'll have to limit the number of works and subjects.

One promising subject would be his realationship with and death of Jane Baker. This alone will make for too many pages.
The novels in this case would be 'Factotum' and 'Post Office'. Poems about her death especially in 'Days Run Away'. Other poems about her everywhere. You could include the screenplay to 'Barfly' too.

Of course you'll also need to consult the biographies and Buk's own biographical info like letters or interviews.

 

[zobraks]

I'm from Barcelona and I read Ham on Rye when I was 7 or 8.

You Catalans/Spaniards really have a knack for Buk.

 

[skiroomalum]

Don't I know you from chat roulette?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Why don't you just write the paper for him Roni? I wish I had the internet in college. I could have spent even more time eating acid...

 

[roni]

Why [...]

I tell you why, Pogue - or to be exact, I'll tell you why I do take his request as legitimate and answer it seriously:

1.
(generally) - it is one of the MAIN purposes of a forum to give information to curious persons who aren't specialists and don't even have the need to get as deep into a subject as the experts on a forum did.

When I wonder about a special aspect about Thoreau or Quantum-Physics, my way is to go where the experts are and ask them. And the last thing I'd need is them telling me to go and read all the books on the subject first.

2.
(this special situation) - I've been harsh before, e.g. when someone stated, he'd like to do a big thing like a PhD on Buk and didn't show then that he he really IS into the topic. But here we're talking about a 17 yearold student. He's young, he's forced to do a paper - and I'd rather see him doing this paper on Buk than William Faulkner.

That's why I want to help and point into useful directions. No attempt to write the whole thing for him and I'm sure, this isn't what he's looking for. Or do you really expect a 17yo to have read all of Bukowski's work? Do you expect from Any student to do so for Every damn paper they have to write? Please!


p.s.:
of course this message goes to some other regulars of buknet too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I was just kidding with you Roni, in my acid minded way. Your thesis suggestion was excellent and (more importantly) very achievable. Wish you were my roommate in college.

 

[Purple Stickpin]

The key to realizing your premise of comparing Buk's poems and novels is being sure that you've properly selected the same period that the poem was written to the period discussed in a novel that, in some cases, was written much later. As such, Roni's idea of comparing many of the poems in The Days Run Away... with portions of Post Office and Factotum. Another option would be to compare relationship-based poems in Mockingbird Wish Me Luck (1972) and in Section IV (1972-1973) of Burning in Water Drowning in Flame with his writing about Lydia Vance in Women. I think your hypothesis makes some good sense. Women seems largely written for humorous impact (and it works) while the poems about this time seem more grounded in terms of expressing his thoughts.

 

[Dora]

I tell you why, Pogue - or to be exact, I'll tell you why I do take his request as legitimate and answer it seriously:
p.s.:
of course this message goes to some other regulars of buknet too.

I got the impression from the message that he already did some work -his hypothesis on emotions in poetry and novels shows that he made his share of readings.

Bruno: did *you* choose to compare poems and novels or was it required from you?
There were anecdotes that Bukowski used in poems and short stories alike, like the time he spent once in jail.
Roni: your idea about Jane is beautiful.

 

[Ponder]

I'm assuming, your teachers don't want a 700-page-script, right? So you'll have to limit the number of works and subjects.

One promising subject would be his realationship with and death of Jane Baker.

I'd like to see a good essay on this subject.

Maybe you want to contact the number one Bukowski scholar of the world.
He is a Spaniard and speaks Catalan. Send a private message to https://bukowskiforum.com/members/cirerita.10/


A small thread on Jane: https://bukowskiforum.com/threads/another-jane-thread-love-is-a-perspective.3791/

You could include the screenplay to 'Barfly' too

https://bukowskiforum.com/threads/barfly-poem.3827/#post-73996

 

[BrunoAndernacht]

Hello everyone,

thanks for your help and your good intentions, which I appreciate above everything. I didn't explain myself, I have read Ham on Rye, Factotum, Postman, Women, Pulp, South of No North and a compilation of some of his short stories... I think it was called Notes of a dirty old man.

I consider myself pretty much of a hard-working person, so no, I'm not asking for anyone to do this for me. I have already chosen the topic of the work: "Are Bukowski's inner feelings hidden in his novels where as his poetry shows them a lot more"? I want to see if we can approach Bukowski better through his poetry than his novels. That's it. I have already begun and it's going pretty well, having already commented "For Jane: with all the love I had..." and "Bluebird". I found myself stuck and I was just asking for a couple of poems.

Thanks to everyone except the guy who thought he knew me from some chatroom and the acid dude; you have been really helpful, I'll go and check the poems you've told me about.

zobraks: I guess we do! My dad asked a friend of his who works in a library for a good, fun book, and he gave him Ham on Rye. He found out someone else was reading and thought it was my mum, and he finally discovered it was me. He encouraged me to read even though he find it strange.

roni: Thanks for your suggestion and for having defended me!

Purple Stickpin: I'll check out that poem and compare him to what he wrote about Lydia in Women, that's really interesting and is exactly what I'm looking for.

Dora: I knew I wanted to do something about Bukowski. One of my teachers suggested that I tried to psychoanalize Buk through his works, and another one told me I could compare poetry-novels. I chose the latter. But not just novels, short stories too if that's what you were asking. I really like Buk's short stories, specially Maja Thurup! It was a good laugh!

Ponder: Thank you, sir! I'll contact him soon!

 

[Dora]

"Are Bukowski's inner feelings hidden in his novels where as his poetry shows them a lot more"

It's clearer now with a title ;)
I like how it echoes some discussions that took place here. I remember someone saying that Bukowski was wearing a mask in his novel, and sounded more authentic in his poems -although I felt he had less putting up that persona in Hollywood, and that's probably because he is dealing with his memories of Jane in there. You might want to look at the Corn scene in it, very poignant.

Other poems possible: The shower in Mockingbird Wish Me Luck (about Linda), and anything about his daughter. Also there is a beautiful poem where he buries his one-eyed cat (the one in The story of one tough motherfucker) and the way he expresses his sadness has some similarity with The Bluebird IIRC.

Now that I think of it, there is also much to say about *the way* he expresses strong emotions, always in a simple, seemingly non-lyrical tight-lipped way, but it is still very powerful. Actually, you've picked a fun subject :)

 

[BrunoAndernacht]

Dora,

So far, one of my conlcusions is that Bukowski has a tendency towards self-compassion, what do you think? The last lines in Bluebird ("and it's nice enough to make a man weep, but I don't weep, do you?") shows that he needs to be understood, that he needs of approval, in a way. I'll translate my Bluebird commentary and show it to y'all.

I also thought that, by the way, that the chaotic external structure his poems have has some type of meaning. It might just be that he didn't care about formal stuff, but in Bluebird every verse has a bigger amount of lines, it feels like he's telling himself off for being a sensitive person deep inside.

Are there any other poems about Linda? (the Lydia Vance of his novels)

 

[Purple Stickpin]

"Are Bukowski's inner feelings hidden in his novels where as his poetry shows them a lot more"? I want to see if we can approach Bukowski better through his poetry than his novels.

Simple answer is probably yes. For the most part, in the novels and early stories, Bukowski was Chinaski; in the short stories, Bukowski (if in there) was Chinaski squared; in the poems, Bukowski was Bukowski. So your premise seems sound; what you need are some examples of novel excerpts and poetry excerpts to contrast the two. I don't think you have to be sure that a poem was about the same person as the subject of a novel excerpt.

 

[roni]

I'm assuming, your teachers don't want a 700-page-script, right? So you'll have to limit the number of works and subjects.

don't intend to sound like a smartass (which I am of course), but if you really try to include all this, you'll get lost.
Focus, baby. Focus!

 

[Dora]

I wish I was at his place. With 500 pages that I'm supposed to write, I cannot write off any idea -those hundreds of idea I gathered over the years. I have to include them all, and juggle them into the right order. I regret the time when I only focused on one poetry book. *whiny mode off*

 

[roni]

you're doing a PhD, Dora. That's hardly the same.
For a couple of pages for school he should focus.

 

[BrunoAndernacht]

It's going pretty damn well! I've written 25 pages already. I'm not even half way, but it's going in the right direction, I still have a month to finish it and I'm not taking days off, so it should go well.

Once again, thanks for your help, I was stuck as hell and I really needed it.